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marine parks (Read 28518 times)
freediver
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Re: Overfishing still a problem in Australia
Reply #15 - Oct 8th, 2007 at 5:35pm
 
And why do you keep starting new threads on this? Is one not enough?
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charlie
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Empty Oceans, Empty Nets by Empty brains
Reply #16 - Oct 8th, 2007 at 3:54pm
 
Recently a report titled ‘Empty Oceans, Empty Nets’ on the state of NSW fisheries produced by Paul Winn, from the Nature Conservation Council, formed the basis of claims by various green groups of declining fish stocks.

At the time the claims by the NCC were widely parroted in the media, especially by the ABC and SMH. Despite widespread criticism of the report including solid catch evidence to the contrary and even the senior scientist of the NSW Fisheries flatly denying the reports conclusions, the media continued to echo the Green's claims about "collapsing fisheries".

Well now the "report" has been slammed by the some of the foremost fisheries experts in the world from the University of British Columbia. Their comments speak for themselves:

“The report lacks both consistency and rigour, analytical methods are not clearly described, fisheries science is not appropriately applied and there is a failure to comprehend the management systems and responsibilities in Australian fisheries. In summary, the published report is so seriously flawed that it should not be used or quoted”.

“The report is poorly formulated, and provides no evidence to support it’s claims, at best is liable to provide an incomplete picture of the status of the fishery and, at worst, serves to perpetrate confusion and misinformation."

The Australian public deserves to be properly informed on the issue of marine conservation ..... Care needs to be taken that the genuine concerns for sustainability are not obscured by value-laden rhetoric masquerading as science”.

”We recommend that the Pew Charitable Trust withdraw this report from any further mailings and publish a statement recognising the ill informed and misleading nature of the arguments presented within the report”.

NSW Fisheries have officially responded by issuing a statement: 

“that no NSW stocks are under threat, nor in imminent danger of collapse. All stocks are being harvested sustainably and constantly monitored by the Fisheries managers.”

http://www.fisheries.ubc.ca/publications/working/2006/2006-16.pdf

http://www.thefishingparty.info/uploads/emptyoceansemptynetsfinal%5B1%5D.pdf
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freediver
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Re: Empty Oceans, Empty Nets by Empty brains
Reply #17 - Oct 8th, 2007 at 4:15pm
 
Do you mind if I move this to the technical board?
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charlie
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Re: Empty Oceans, Empty Nets by Empty brains
Reply #18 - Oct 8th, 2007 at 4:34pm
 
yes
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charlie
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Excerts from Dr Kearneys speach at 2007 ASFB
Reply #19 - Oct 8th, 2007 at 5:33pm
 
Talking about the Science Paper  entitled “A review of benefits of Marine Protected Areas
and related zoning considerations” (Marine Parks Authority New South Wales undated).

The Science Paper’s introduction to the “Threats to marine environments” states, “This
document highlights some of the key threats to some marine species and their habitats
and examines key benefits of marine protected areas in addressing these threats.” Five
key activities, presumably these threats, are then listed: “coastal development, pollution,
agriculture, recreational and commercial fishing, and introduced marine pests”. It is
noteworthy that fishing is fourth on a list of five key threats. Then, dealing specifically
with New South Wales, the Science Paper states, “approximately 60% of coastal
wetlands lost or degraded over the last 200 years” and “Increased nutrient levels and turbidity from urban and industrial discharges and catchment usage are the key causes of increased turbidity and nutrient levels that often result in a decline of seagrass habitats and diversity of species in soft-sediment areas”. Here I am not trying to draw attention to
the repetition, but rather to note that this pivotal listing of key and direct threats to coastal
environments, which are reported to have resulted in serious damage to 60% of wetlands,
does not include fishing. The Science Paper does, however, subsequently state that, “The
overall pressures include some fishing activities”. The only specific fishing activity
mentioned in the Science Paper is demersal trawling, which is, in this region, an offshore
activity. Not a single estuarine or beach fishing activity is identified as being responsible
for the identified declines, or even as being a threat.
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charlie
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Re: Excerts from Dr Kearneys speach at 2007 ASFB
Reply #20 - Oct 8th, 2007 at 5:40pm
 
Continued

Of even greater significance to the issue of the relevance of the two cited South African
papers to assessment of possible benefits to the Batemans area from the closure of surfzone
beaches is the following quote from Bennett and Attwood (1991), “Only 2 of the 10
species examined in this study, Argyrosomus hololepidotus and Pomatomus saltatrix, are
highly migratory and neither demonstrated any benefits from protection in the reserve”.
The last two species names may have been familiar to many of you. Argyrosomus
hololepidotus, actually shares the same species name as our mulloway, and Pomatomus
saltatrix is the same species as, or an extremely close relative of, our tailor (FishBase
04/2007). Curiously, as it is based on the same data as the 1991 paper, the 1993 Bennett
and Attwood paper adds a third species, Umbrina canariensis, to this group and states,
“The catch rates of the same three species…did not increase following the proclamation
of the marine reserve, because they are migratory”. Why was this key information not
mentioned in the ‘Science Paper’ presented as a basis for a marine park in the Batemans
region, where migratory species dominate? The primary target species on ocean beaches
in the Batemans Marine Park, Australian salmon, bream, flathead, mullet, mulloway,
tailor and whiting are migratory, even if not all equally so. Incidentally, these same
migratory species are dominant in the estuaries of the Batemans region.

Therefore, the logical conclusion, relevant to the Batemans Marine Park....is that the closure of ocean beaches as
included in the Batemans Marine Park will have absolutely no demonstrable benefit, even for the CPUE, let alone the
numbers, of the important species on the ocean beaches in the region.




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charlie
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Why MPAs dont work as a Fisheries Management Tool
Reply #21 - Oct 8th, 2007 at 6:00pm
 
Fisheries biologists in Atlantic Canada have long opposed the use of what are now termed MPAs in fisheries management. This has not been because closed areas were thought to be harmful. Rather, the principal problem in most marine fisheries management (particularly groundfish management) was, is and will remain the need to limit fishing mortality -- which is synonymous with limiting effective fishing effort. Closures can alter where fishing effort occurs but, with mobile resource species, MPAs can never limit mortality -- the fleet simply catches the fish outside the closed area, albeit at greater fishing cost.

Canada now has long, and not unsuccessful, experience of effort limitation in most of their fisheries. (It has not been limited to a sufficiently low level but that is a separate problem of political will.) This has taught scientisit, while such limitation remains the primary concern, alone it is not sufficient for effective management. MPAs must never be allowed to be treated as an alternative to real and effective limitations on fishing mortality.
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freediver
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Re: Overfishing still a problem in Australia
Reply #22 - Oct 8th, 2007 at 6:06pm
 
I spliced the three threads you just started. Please do not start multiple threads on the one topic.

Fisheries biologists in Atlantic Canada have long opposed the use of what are now termed MPAs

Can you back this claim up?

the fleet simply catches the fish outside the closed area

Not all of them. That's the point, and the reason why MPA's are so successful.
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charlie
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Re: Shark finning a problem in NSW
Reply #23 - Oct 8th, 2007 at 6:30pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2007 at 10:41am:
Sharks in hot water over fin soup

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Sharks-in-hot-water-over-fin-soup/2007/08/12/1186857317612.html

The lucrative shark-fin market is threatening already endangered shark species along the NSW coast, a Fairfax newspaper has reported.

The popularity of the Asian delicacy shark-fin soup has lead to a dramatic increase in fishing for sharks.

The National Parks Association insists something must be done to stem these shark culls, which are endangering the grey nurse and great white shark populations.

"They are catching an awful lot of sharks and it is completely unsustainable," program manager Nicky Hammond told the paper.


Ironically Nicky says that NPA has evidence of fishers capturing white shark and grey nurse yet where is the posecution -where is the police and fisheries compliance brief following up on these accusations? Where is the record of the court case? Fact is this was another sham article based on false evidence by National Parks Association. If it wasnt than there would be a prosecution or some record of a court case. But no there isnt and so again NPA is the policeman, judge and jury without any real evidence.

NPA are odviosuly on the pulse of fisheries conservation thats why they call fishing practises 'Culls'

Shark fin is probably one of the most heavily policed fisheries items for sale. Identification of the two species fins described by NPA (that being white shark and grey nurse)  is so easily made (both from colour shape and DNA sampling) that fishers would be literally putting the noose around their own heads.

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freediver
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Re: Overfishing still a problem in Australia
Reply #24 - Oct 8th, 2007 at 6:33pm
 
If it wasnt than there would be a prosecution or some record of a court case.

Obviously you need more than just evidence that it is happening in order to get a successfull prosecution. For starters, you need evidence on who was responsible.
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charlie
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Re: Overfishing still a problem in Australia
Reply #25 - Oct 8th, 2007 at 6:42pm
 
Yes your right ....the same type of evidence needed befor you can right an article making an statment regarding someones actions.


Are you going to move this too. Now that youve been shown to support the position of a liar.
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freediver
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Re: Overfishing still a problem in Australia
Reply #26 - Oct 8th, 2007 at 6:45pm
 
lol

Mind explaining what you are referring to with the comment below? Sorry if I sound like a borken record, but you are making a lot of statements that don't make a lot of sense, then ignoring requests for clarification.

befor you can right an article making an statment regarding someones actions
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charlie
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Re: Overfishing still a problem in Australia
Reply #27 - Oct 8th, 2007 at 6:57pm
 
LOL  Cheesy

Every statement Ive made can be supported by relevant information. I recall on another forum some similar issues. As you have suggested befor isnt it your responsibility to find the relevant details.

I will ensure that all other forum members see the topics Ive posted. You cannot bury my threads when they are ligitement topics.

If you had any understanding of free speech you would move them back so they can be properly commented on. The fact that you wont testifies to this sites lack of understanding the meaning of freedom of speech and your inability to argue effectively on the topics raised by members of the public.

Your a sham.
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freediver
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Re: Overfishing still a problem in Australia
Reply #28 - Oct 8th, 2007 at 7:01pm
 
Every statement Ive made can be supported by relevant information.

Then do it.

If you had any understanding of free speech you would move them back so they can be properly commented on.

I don't think spamming a forum with multiple threads on the same topic is what free speech is all about. I am not censoring you. I am just stopping you from monopolising a public forum. I think you would have trouble finding any forum that would let you get away with what you tried here. How about you stop whinging and get on with trying to back up those absurd claims?
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IQSRLOW
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Re: Overfishing still a problem in Australia
Reply #29 - Oct 8th, 2007 at 10:33pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 8th, 2007 at 3:08pm:
The extremist conservation movement are desperate to deceive the public over the Marine Parks (MPA) issue because they know they have no science behind them. 

I think it's the other way round. The scientific consensus backs up the pro marine park side. And it's not just the extremist consercationists. There are plenty of fishermen too who have seen the benefits first hand. It's a very small minority of fishermen who completely oppose marine parks. They are the only ones who are desperate.

HOWEVER the proposed MPAs only extend to the 3 nautical mile limit

Would you mind letting everyone know what you are talking about? There are plenty of proposals floating around atm.

Any idea on why I can't access that report via the University Of Canberra any more?

Maybe you aren't aware, but there is far more to marine park science than those two reports you mentioned. If someone has given you the imrpession that that is the extent of it, or even that they are significant contributions, then they have grossly mislead you.


Scientific consensus = oxymoron
Precautionary principle= easily hijacked notion due to its extremely loosely defined criteria

Coupled with vocal minority groups= Not a great foundation for deciding policy on public access to our resources
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Political Animal has little moderation. It is the forum for free speech and free thinkers to converse passionately without the threat of being banned. It is a forum for adults.
 
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