Australian Politics Forum - "when we get in it will all change"

Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40710 Gender:	"when we get in it will all change" - garrett Nov 5^th, 2007 at 1:02pm How can that be ? ALPs policies are like peas in a pod compared to Liberals ?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48834 At my desk.	Re: "when we get in it will all change" - garrett Reply #1 - Nov 5^th, 2007 at 3:58pm They have significantly different policies on climate change.
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deepthought Gold Member Offline In Defence Of Liberty Posts: 2869	Re: "when we get in it will all change" - garrett Reply #2 - Nov 5^th, 2007 at 6:05pm freediver wrote on Nov 5^th, 2007 at 3:58pm: They have significantly different policies on climate change. Yes. But they will change them anyway so who knows what they are.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48834 At my desk.	Re: "when we get in it will all change" - garrett Reply #3 - Nov 5^th, 2007 at 6:21pm I don't think Howard will change his. He has only begrudgingly agreed to do anything and it is unlikely he will go beyond that, which pretty much means no real action. Unfortunately Labor are going to wait for a report on the economics etc, but I guess that is better than choosing the wrong strategy.
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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40710 Gender:	Re: "when we get in it will all change" - garrett Reply #4 - Nov 5^th, 2007 at 9:52pm freediver - i thought liberals had a goal of ... what was it, a 15% reduction or something and ALP was a 20 % reduction as a goal. Was that the difference ?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48834 At my desk.	Re: "when we get in it will all change" - garrett Reply #5 - Nov 5^th, 2007 at 10:00pm I think the Liberal goal of 15% is an MRET goal which is a far less useful way to reduce emissions than a mandatory emissions reduction target.
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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40710 Gender:	Re: "when we get in it will all change" - garrett Reply #6 - Nov 5^th, 2007 at 10:03pm i have no idea of MRET . As far as goals go, not much difference between 15 and 20. In any way, they are goals only. No ideas of ho w to get there. it's just a figure plucked from the sky. libs should up their hope to 37%, sounds precise to me.
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freediver

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Re: "when we get in it will all change" - garrett
Reply #7 - Nov 5^th, 2007 at 10:06pm

MRET = Mandatory renewable energy target. Under liberal this would include 'clean coal' which is still dirtier than gas, and probably gas also. You could achieve the 15% target while still increasing overall emissions. Given that MRETs tend to result in the average rather than the marginal price being passed on to consumers, this is likely.

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40710 Gender:	Re: "when we get in it will all change" - garrett Reply #8 - Nov 5^th, 2007 at 10:15pm I could not see coal or gas as being renewable. MRETS appeal to me much more so than reduction in emissions. MRETS would be much more measurable ? also a target to aim for. ie 100% renewable. So, anyway, the diff between labor and libs on climate is pretty negligable, if that.
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IQSRLOW

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Re: "when we get in it will all change" - garrett
Reply #9 - Nov 5^th, 2007 at 10:29pm

Until Labor specify how they are going to achieve their stated targets, it all pie in the sky as Sprint has suggested.

You are penny pinching if you think that there will be any difference whatsoever in the major parties when it comes to reduction of GHG. If you were to base your vote on solely that alone then you should vote for the incumbent party as a change of govt would likely add much more to Australia's ecological footprint than anything decided by either of them.

Sadly ideologies and symbolism at any cost seems to be the order of the day. Roll Eyes

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freediver

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Re: "when we get in it will all change" - garrett
Reply #10 - Nov 6^th, 2007 at 11:15am

MRETS appeal to me much more so than reduction in emissions.

More what?

MRETS would be much more measurable ?

You can measure both well enough. You shouldn't go for an inferior tool because it's easier for the bureaucrats to measure.

So, anyway, the diff between labor and libs on climate is pretty negligable, if that.

No it isn't negligible. You are basing that on ignorance of their policies. Here is a good place to start:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/green-tax-shift/climate-change-policy.html

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freediver

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Re: "when we get in it will all change" - garrett
Reply #11 - Nov 6^th, 2007 at 11:17am

Until Labor specify how they are going to achieve their stated targets, it all pie in the sky as Sprint has suggested.

As far as the climate is concerned, it is the outcome that matters, not the method.

a change of govt would likely add much more to Australia's ecological footprint

Care to elaborate?

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oceanz

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Re: "when we get in it will all change" - garrett
Reply #12 - Nov 6^th, 2007 at 12:15pm

freediver wrote on Nov 5^th, 2007 at 6:21pm:

I don't think Howard will change his. He has only begrudgingly agreed to do anything and it is unlikely he will go beyond that, which pretty much means no real action.

Unfortunately Labor are going to wait for a report on the economics etc, but I guess that is better than choosing the wrong strategy.

No I dont believe Howard will change either. Hes had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the climate change debate- I think Labor will make changes as soon as they are able and will be very proactive in this area.

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IQSRLOW

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Re: "when we get in it will all change" - garrett
Reply #13 - Nov 6^th, 2007 at 1:02pm

As far as the climate is concerned, it is the outcome that matters, not the method.

Rubbish- the method will determine the outcome and the outcome will be insignificant in the bigger picture

Care to elaborate?

You need to see the waste involved in the changing of names of a govt dept- ie stationary, remodelling etc let alone a change of govt

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48834 At my desk.	Re: "when we get in it will all change" - garrett Reply #14 - Nov 6^th, 2007 at 1:14pm The method will not determine the outcome because the outcomes are largely predetermined. It is true that some methods like taxes may give you faster changes than whatever targets are set, but we are likely to end up just meeting whatever fixed targets are set.
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