muso wrote on Jul 26^th, 2010 at 8:41am:

The trick is to recognise the informed pisstakers having a bit of fun, from the genuinely clueless and those whose grasp of English is too tenuous to debate the subject due to their ignorance of the subtleties of the English language. I've noticed the worst for this kind of disregard are Asians, who seem to think their "dis wun, dat wun, nudder wun" gibberish is Shakespeare to our ears.

Sappho wrote on Jul 26^th, 2010 at 11:20am:

If "Religion is the belief in the supernatural/ metaphysical and practice of those beliefs and values as defined by some kind of spiritual leader or god/s"  and "Atheism is the belief in no god or gods." (actually, disbelief in the existence of god(s) as opposed to belief in the non-existence of gods) then how is it that someone - insofar as they are atheists - be religious?

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I agree with Points 1 and 2. Other examples of religious atheists are Jains, who just believe in individual human minds and no gods, and then there are Raelians.  

Belief in the devil doesn't equate with worship, but I take your point about god-like properties, at least in some traditions. I'll give the devil the benefit of the doubt and give him god status LOL. Some Christians might take offense at calling the devil a god of course.

Would you regard Deists as religious or not? That is, do you regard the belief in a no-frills God without the worship, as religious?

The term 'religious' opens a whole can of worms because religions have very loose shared characteristics in some cases.

Obviously Christianity Islam and Judaism are so similar that you could regard them as branches of the same religion.  In those cases, it's easy to note the similarity. In fact there is far more diversity within Hinduism that there is between Islam and Christianity.
 
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Buddhism strictly doesn't concern itself about the existence or otherwise of gods, although the craving for gods is regarded as a source of suffering.

Having said that, some Buddhists believe in a god or gods, just as some atheists do  

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 28^th, 2010 at 4:35pm:


The Dalia Lama disagrees with you. He says that there are three aspects to Buddhism: a) Buddhist Science. b) Buddhist Philosophy. c) Buddhist Religion.

I learnt this the other day on a pod caste which I have on my ipod... which I was motivated to re-listen to after reading your post in the truth thread.

I'm not sure if it is still available, but if it is, can be found from the Radio National Program "All in the mind" entitled... An Audience with his Holiness the Dalia Lama.. of something similar... I think it dates from last year. I could try and track it down if you like.

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I see your point, but think it may be more fluid than that. You see there are many Atheists who regularly engage in disproving the existence of god/s. They would claim that you cannot disbelieve without reason to support that disbelieve. Daniel Dennet and Richard Dawkins are people I think of when I make such claims. Not only do they show why theists are wrong logically in their theistic belief, but they go further to explain the nature of the world in which god/s do not exist.  

muso wrote on Jul 28^th, 2010 at 5:30pm:


Yes indeed, I see that now... sorry about that.

I thought I'd already made that point tho when I said that you can be religious or not if you are atheist or theist. Atheism and Theism does not require of the person to be religious. They are not interdependent.

Religion is something all together different to Faith in gods or a lack thereof. My whole purpose in this thread was to make that point and so bring the question... Is atheism a religious belief?... into doubt.

Is atheism a religion?? The courts seem to think so. Have a read ...


Court Rules Atheism A Religion


A federal court of appeals ruled yesterday Wisconsin prison officials violated an inmate's rights because they did not treat atheism as a religion.

"Atheism is [the inmate's] religion, and the group that he wanted to start was religious in nature even though it expressly rejects a belief in a supreme being," the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals said.

The court decided the inmate's First Amendment rights were violated because the prison refused to allow him to create a study group for atheists.

Brian Fahling, senior trial attorney for the American Family Association Center for Law & Policy, called the court's ruling "a sort of Alice in Wonderland jurisprudence."

"Up is down, and atheism, the antithesis of religion, is religion," said Fahling.

The Supreme Court has said a religion need not be based on a belief in the existence of a supreme being. In the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins, the court described "secular humanism" as a religion.

Fahling said today's ruling was "further evidence of the incoherence of Establishment Clause jurisprudence."

"It is difficult not to be somewhat jaundiced about our courts when they take clauses especially designed to protect religion from the state and turn them on their head by giving protective cover to a belief system, that, by every known definition other than the courts' is not a religion, while simultaneously declaring public expressions of true religious faith to be prohibited," Fahling said.


http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=31895

Sappho wrote on Jul 28^th, 2010 at 4:56pm:

True, they're atheists but their mission is beyond atheism...   Their mission is anti-theism.