Australian Politics Forum - Is atheism a religious belief?

...

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 23673
WA
Gender: male

Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #360 - Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:54am

Ziggy wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:53am:

... wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:47am:

Ziggy wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:45am:

... wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:37am:

Ziggy wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:26am:

Atheism is on par with not believing in tooth fairies. And I'd say there's nothing religious in not believing in tooth fairies.

One could also argue that atheism is on par with burying your head in the sand, as to be truly atheistic, there are many unexplainable things you have to ignore.

What do inexplicable things have to do with atheism? If they're inexplicable then they're inexplicable regardless of what you believe in.

Not if you can explain them as being the 'work of god'

Then they wouldn't be inexplicable by definition. That something inexplicable happens and someone comes along and claims that God did it doesn't make it explicable. They've just appended an empty label to it.

To you it's empty. To them it's explained 100%.

Back to top

In the fullness of time...

IP Logged

muso

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male

Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #361 - Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:59am

Ziggy wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:45am:

What do inexplicable things have to do with atheism? If they're inexplicable then they're inexplicable regardless of what you believe in.

Ziggy, Have you ever pulled a tissue out of a box and wondered what unknown force makes the next one pop out?

Have you ever wondered why a banana is so perfectly designed for human consumption? - why it fits in the hand so perfectly.

And have you ever wondered why Creationists have such small ***** that fit in their hands so naturally?

Got you there - haven't I Wink

Back to top

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

IP Logged

Ziggy

Full Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 131

Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #362 - Aug 6^th, 2010 at 12:10pm

... wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:54am:

Ziggy wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:53am:

... wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:47am:

Ziggy wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:45am:

... wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:37am:

Ziggy wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:26am:

Atheism is on par with not believing in tooth fairies. And I'd say there's nothing religious in not believing in tooth fairies.

One could also argue that atheism is on par with burying your head in the sand, as to be truly atheistic, there are many unexplainable things you have to ignore.

What do inexplicable things have to do with atheism? If they're inexplicable then they're inexplicable regardless of what you believe in.

Not if you can explain them as being the 'work of god'

Then they wouldn't be inexplicable by definition. That something inexplicable happens and someone comes along and claims that God did it doesn't make it explicable. They've just appended an empty label to it.

To you it's empty. To them it's explained 100%.

And would you be satisfied with their explanation of the apparently inexplicable?

Back to top

IP Logged

Ziggy

Full Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 131

Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #363 - Aug 6^th, 2010 at 12:11pm

muso wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:59am:

Ziggy wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:45am:

What do inexplicable things have to do with atheism? If they're inexplicable then they're inexplicable regardless of what you believe in.

Ziggy, Have you ever pulled a tissue out of a box and wondered what unknown force makes the next one pop out?

Have you ever wondered why a banana is so perfectly designed for human consumption? - why it fits in the hand so perfectly.

And have you ever wondered why Creationists have such small ***** that fit in their hands so naturally?

Got you there - haven't I Wink

I have an explanation for all of them. Grin

I wonder if they'd think God was cruel or had a sense of humour.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Aug 6^th, 2010 at 12:23pm by Ziggy »

IP Logged

Please delete Gold Member Offline Please delete this smacking PROFILE Posts: 2936	Re: Is atheism a religious belief? Reply #364 - Aug 6^th, 2010 at 12:11pm "Have you ever wondered why a banana is so perfectly designed for human consumption? - why it fits in the hand so perfectly. " Bananaman has arrived!
Back to top	IP Logged

...

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 23673
WA
Gender: male

Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #365 - Aug 6^th, 2010 at 12:12pm

Ziggy wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 12:10pm:

... wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:54am:

Ziggy wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:53am:

... wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:47am:

Ziggy wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:45am:

... wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:37am:

Ziggy wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:26am:

Atheism is on par with not believing in tooth fairies. And I'd say there's nothing religious in not believing in tooth fairies.

One could also argue that atheism is on par with burying your head in the sand, as to be truly atheistic, there are many unexplainable things you have to ignore.

What do inexplicable things have to do with atheism? If they're inexplicable then they're inexplicable regardless of what you believe in.

Not if you can explain them as being the 'work of god'

Then they wouldn't be inexplicable by definition. That something inexplicable happens and someone comes along and claims that God did it doesn't make it explicable. They've just appended an empty label to it.

To you it's empty. To them it's explained 100%.

And would you be satisfied with their explanation of the apparently inexplicable?

What business is it of mine? If it works for them, and gives their life meaning and/or direction, who are you to criticise?

Back to top

In the fullness of time...

IP Logged

Ziggy

Full Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 131

Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #366 - Aug 6^th, 2010 at 12:21pm

... wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 12:12pm:

Ziggy wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 12:10pm:

... wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:54am:

Ziggy wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:53am:

... wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:47am:

Ziggy wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:45am:

... wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:37am:

Ziggy wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:26am:

Atheism is on par with not believing in tooth fairies. And I'd say there's nothing religious in not believing in tooth fairies.

One could also argue that atheism is on par with burying your head in the sand, as to be truly atheistic, there are many unexplainable things you have to ignore.

What do inexplicable things have to do with atheism? If they're inexplicable then they're inexplicable regardless of what you believe in.

Not if you can explain them as being the 'work of god'

Then they wouldn't be inexplicable by definition. That something inexplicable happens and someone comes along and claims that God did it doesn't make it explicable. They've just appended an empty label to it.

To you it's empty. To them it's explained 100%.

And would you be satisfied with their explanation of the apparently inexplicable?

What business is it of mine? If it works for them, and gives their life meaning and/or direction, who are you to criticise?

I'd suppose, if you're even handed, you'd apply the same principle to me. . I'm free to criticise as they are to hold their view and you to criticise me for criticising them........ Wink

Back to top

IP Logged

...

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 23673
WA
Gender: male

Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #367 - Aug 6^th, 2010 at 12:25pm

Ziggy wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 12:21pm:

... wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 12:12pm:

Ziggy wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 12:10pm:

... wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:54am:

Ziggy wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:53am:

... wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:47am:

Ziggy wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:45am:

... wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:37am:

Ziggy wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:26am:

Atheism is on par with not believing in tooth fairies. And I'd say there's nothing religious in not believing in tooth fairies.

One could also argue that atheism is on par with burying your head in the sand, as to be truly atheistic, there are many unexplainable things you have to ignore.

What do inexplicable things have to do with atheism? If they're inexplicable then they're inexplicable regardless of what you believe in.

Not if you can explain them as being the 'work of god'

Then they wouldn't be inexplicable by definition. That something inexplicable happens and someone comes along and claims that God did it doesn't make it explicable. They've just appended an empty label to it.

To you it's empty. To them it's explained 100%.

And would you be satisfied with their explanation of the apparently inexplicable?

What business is it of mine? If it works for them, and gives their life meaning and/or direction, who are you to criticise?

I'd suppose, if you're even handed, you'd apply the same principle to me. . I'm free to criticise as they are to hold it and you to criticise me for criticising them........ Wink

Sure, but now we're going full circle to the premise that many atheists are as rabid in their opposition to other belief sets as the spanish inquisition.
The atheists prophet, Richard Dawkins made it his life work to deride the beliefs of others....how does that sit with you?

Back to top

In the fullness of time...

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: Is adeism a religious belief?
Reply #368 - Aug 6^th, 2010 at 12:41pm

muso wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:45am:

What if I said that most people who call themselves atheists are actually adeists ?

I'd be interested in the reaction of those who think that Atheism is a religion according to their personal definition of Atheism.

Would you regard Adeism as a religion?

Let me explain Adeism as follows:

Adeism is identical to the position of weak atheism, nontheism, or negative atheism. Adeists, unlike atheists, are unwilling to make the positive claim of belief that a God does not exist. The adeist lacks a belief, or is without a belief in God. This is not to be confused with agnosticism, which states that the existence of God cannot be known. It is rather the suspension of belief that is the crux of the adeist position.

The adeistic position is dependent on the philosophical burden of proof. When faced in an argument with the question "Can you prove that God does not exist?", the adeist may remind the opponent that (s)he has made no such claim of non-existence. The burden then remains on the theist who makes a positive claim for existence.

For the purposes of those calling themselves atheists, Adeism is basically identical to atheism for most atheists. It's a term devised entirely to placate the most anal of monotheistic supers.

Not believing in god (of whatever description) is believing in something else. Whithout necsessary sharing what they do believe in, atheists are bound together by their not-believeing-in-god. SO in that sense they are a community of deniers (not unlike climate change deniers Wink

. Now there's another broad church...)

Importantly, it does not mean that they are not believing in something. They are. They, like the rest of humanity, start with belief. ANd they are perhaps even touchier about their beliefs than the garden variety Christian who has had decades, centuries of experience in doubt, a very human experience. On the other hand, atheists, being as dogmatic as the next guy, and some, talk as if doubt was not in their repertoire of human experiences. Atheist have a touching faith in having overcome doubt.

Back to top

IP Logged

Ziggy

Full Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 131

Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #369 - Aug 6^th, 2010 at 12:50pm

... wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 12:25pm:

Ziggy wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 12:21pm:

... wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 12:12pm:

Ziggy wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 12:10pm:

... wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:54am:

Ziggy wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:53am:

... wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:47am:

Ziggy wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:45am:

... wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:37am:

Ziggy wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:26am:

Atheism is on par with not believing in tooth fairies. And I'd say there's nothing religious in not believing in tooth fairies.

One could also argue that atheism is on par with burying your head in the sand, as to be truly atheistic, there are many unexplainable things you have to ignore.

What do inexplicable things have to do with atheism? If they're inexplicable then they're inexplicable regardless of what you believe in.

Not if you can explain them as being the 'work of god'

Then they wouldn't be inexplicable by definition. That something inexplicable happens and someone comes along and claims that God did it doesn't make it explicable. They've just appended an empty label to it.

To you it's empty. To them it's explained 100%.

And would you be satisfied with their explanation of the apparently inexplicable?

What business is it of mine? If it works for them, and gives their life meaning and/or direction, who are you to criticise?

I'd suppose, if you're even handed, you'd apply the same principle to me. . I'm free to criticise as they are to hold it and you to criticise me for criticising them........ Wink

Sure, but now we're going full circle to the premise that many atheists are as rabid in their opposition to other belief sets as the spanish inquisition.
The atheists prophet, Richard Dawkins made it his life work to deride the beliefs of others....how does that sit with you?

Richard Dawkins has his foibles like anyone else.There are statements he has made that I wouldn't subscribe to. However, with respect to his position on theism , he's free to crticise and be evaluated on the merits of that criticism just like anyone else.

Back to top

IP Logged

Ziggy

Full Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 131

Re: Is adeism a religious belief?
Reply #370 - Aug 6^th, 2010 at 12:57pm

Soren wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 12:41pm:

muso wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 11:45am:

What if I said that most people who call themselves atheists are actually adeists ?

I'd be interested in the reaction of those who think that Atheism is a religion according to their personal definition of Atheism.

Would you regard Adeism as a religion?

Let me explain Adeism as follows:

Adeism is identical to the position of weak atheism, nontheism, or negative atheism. Adeists, unlike atheists, are unwilling to make the positive claim of belief that a God does not exist. The adeist lacks a belief, or is without a belief in God. This is not to be confused with agnosticism, which states that the existence of God cannot be known. It is rather the suspension of belief that is the crux of the adeist position.

The adeistic position is dependent on the philosophical burden of proof. When faced in an argument with the question "Can you prove that God does not exist?", the adeist may remind the opponent that (s)he has made no such claim of non-existence. The burden then remains on the theist who makes a positive claim for existence.

For the purposes of those calling themselves atheists, Adeism is basically identical to atheism for most atheists. It's a term devised entirely to placate the most anal of monotheistic supers.

Not believing in god (of whatever description) is believing in something else. Whithout necsessary sharing what they do believe in, atheists are bound together by their not-believeing-in-god. SO in that sense they are a community of deniers (not unlike climate change deniers Wink

. Now there's another broad church...)

Importantly, it does not mean that they are not believing in something. They are. They, like the rest of humanity, start with belief. ANd they are perhaps even touchier about their beliefs than the garden variety Christian who has had decades, centuries of experience in doubt, a very human experience. On the other hand, atheists, being as dogmatic as the next guy, and some, talk as if doubt was not in their repertoire of human experiences. Atheist have a touching faith in having overcome doubt.

Atheism is a motley crew as much as theists. You'll get a range of attitudes and other beliefs.

Accusing anyone of having a belief is hardly a criticism if that's what's intended. The point , however, is to determine whether the belief is justified or not.

Back to top

IP Logged

muso

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male

Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #371 - Aug 6^th, 2010 at 2:03pm

... wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 12:25pm:

Sure, but now we're going full circle to the premise that many atheists are as rabid in their opposition to other belief sets as the spanish inquisition.
The atheists prophet, Richard Dawkins made it his life work to deride the beliefs of others....how does that sit with you?

Oh I agree with you whole hearted on that, and my own view is that he's an embarrasment to the vast majority of atheists, except for that tiny minority who whinge about religions on Internet forums.

I take the view that we should all learn to be tolerant, but that tolerance doesn't extend to allowing creationists to spread their nonsense to the public education system. They don't allow it in the USA, that most Christian of countries, and they certainly shouldn't allow it here.

Even though I'm not religious in any conventionally defined way, you'll find that I defend the rights of people to follow their own religion or world view as long as they don't try to force feed others with it.

As an ignostic, I really don't see any relevance in the terms atheist, theist or agnostic anyway. As far as I can tell you're all homo sapiens sapiens trying to make some sense of your environment in different ways.

Quote:

What business is it of mine? If it works for them, and gives their life meaning and/or direction, who are you to criticise?

Good attitude. I wish more people would think that way.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Aug 6^th, 2010 at 2:11pm by muso »

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

IP Logged

muso

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male

Re: Is adeism a religious belief?
Reply #372 - Aug 6^th, 2010 at 2:07pm

Soren wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 12:41pm:

Not believing in god (of whatever description) is believing in something else. Whithout necsessary sharing what they do believe in, atheists are bound together by their not-believeing-in-god. SO in that sense they are a community of deniers (not unlike climate change deniers Wink

. Now there's another broad church...)

Importantly, it does not mean that they are not believing in something. They are. They, like the rest of humanity, start with belief. ANd they are perhaps even touchier about their beliefs than the garden variety Christian who has had decades, centuries of experience in doubt, a very human experience. On the other hand, atheists, being as dogmatic as the next guy, and some, talk as if doubt was not in their repertoire of human experiences. Atheist have a touching faith in having overcome doubt.

Yeah fine, but my question related to Adeists. It's a hypothetical question, because nobody on here so far has labelled themselves as an Adeist. Nobody will take umbrage if you diss Adeists - so relax, and make the best of this one opportunity to provide an honest unguarded reply.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Aug 6^th, 2010 at 2:19pm by muso »

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

IP Logged

Please delete

Gold Member

Offline

Please delete this smacking
PROFILE

Posts: 2936

Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #373 - Aug 6^th, 2010 at 2:27pm

"Whithout necsessary sharing what they do believe in, atheists are bound together by their not-believeing-in-god. "

I would have thought atheists were more accurately described as ISOLATED by their position (which is only a reactionary response to an otherwise irrelevant question).

A conversational version of Newton's law:

"To every action (religion) there is always an equal and opposite reaction (null religion)"

Back to top

IP Logged

Ziggy

Full Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 131

Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #374 - Aug 6^th, 2010 at 3:04pm

Please delete wrote on Aug 6^th, 2010 at 2:27pm:

"Whithout necsessary sharing what they do believe in, atheists are bound together by their not-believeing-in-god. "

I would have thought atheists were more accurately described as ISOLATED by their position (which is only a reactionary response to an otherwise irrelevant question).

A conversational version of Newton's law:

"To every action (religion) there is always an equal and opposite reaction (null religion)"

The problem here is that you don't only get an opposite reaction, you get a spray of different positions.

Back to top

IP Logged