Australian Politics Forum - Is atheism a religious belief?

muso

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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #435 - Oct 14^th, 2010 at 8:48pm

Amadd wrote on Oct 14^th, 2010 at 4:33pm:

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Well if that's the definition that you use for god, then you can certainly be an atheist with respect to that particular god, and so can all Christians and probably every follower of every theist religion in the world.

.....because none of them actually believe that.

You may be surprised as to how many actually do believe that.

Maybe we should start a poll. (Theists only)

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Equitist Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9632 NSW	Re: Is atheism a religious belief? Reply #436 - Oct 14^th, 2010 at 8:54pm Isn't there something in the Xtian Bible, about man being created in doG's image!?
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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Is atheism a religious belief? Reply #437 - Oct 15^th, 2010 at 1:03am NO!
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muso

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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #438 - Oct 15^th, 2010 at 7:55am

Atheism is all very well and good, except when it starts to get militant - like any other world view, including Christianity and Islam.

Lisa, if you can get a copy of it, watch Alejandro Amenábar's excellent film 'Agora'. It might appeal to you as a moderate Christian, as a person who enjoys rational discussions, and as a woman.

If you can't get a copy of it, send me a PM.

It tells the story of Hypatia around the turn of the 4th Century AD in Alexandria, Egypt.

It shows how a belief system, if taken too far, can corrupt people and turn them into thugs to the extent that they seek to destroy all wisdom and beauty.

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Amadd

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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #439 - Oct 15^th, 2010 at 9:46am

I think that Bobby made the point well enough that God is depicted as a wise old man peekig through the clouds by a lot of people.
Views may have changed, however, this is the impression that we are led to believe:

New International Version (©1984)
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

New Living Translation (©2007)
So God created human beings in his own image. In the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

English Standard Version (©2001)
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
So God created humans in his image. In the image of God he created them. He created them male and female.

King James Bible
So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

American King James Version
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

American Standard Version
And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Bible in Basic English
And God made man in his image, in the image of God he made him: male and female he made them.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.

Darby Bible Translation
And God created Man in his image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

English Revised Version
And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Webster's Bible Translation
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

World English Bible
God created man in his own image. In God's image he created him; male and female he created them.

Young's Literal Translation
And God prepareth the man in His image; in the image of God He prepared him, a male and a female He prepared them.

Genesis 5:1 This is the written account of Adam's line. When God created man, he made him in the likeness of God.

Genesis 9:6 "Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man.

I especially like this one for the ladies:

1 Corinthians 11:7 A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.

I really can't see where people have such a problem understanding that scriptures, all of them, are the thoughts and writings of humans (invariably men).
The God that they were worshipping and so in awe of was actually themselves.

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« Last Edit: Oct 15^th, 2010 at 9:55am by Amadd »

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #440 - Oct 15^th, 2010 at 10:33am

It should be made clear that Christianity, (and Islam), is a form of neo-Platonism. Their metaphysics is heavliy couched in Plato's theory of forms. This is how the Greek scholars in the Roman Empire made sense of 'the third race'; and this interpretation is what has been handed down for two millennia. Plato's theory of forms cannot be empirically validated; they are supposed to be not only the original archetypes of phenomenon, but also the highest moral good, (except art which is deemed the lowly position of a 'copy of a copy'). Today, transcendental absolutes, especially moral ones, receive nothing but ridicule. As much as I admire Plato's cognitive tour de force in creating this theory, there's no way to empirically validate them, and so accepting them leaves the gate open to all sorts of wacky claims.

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Amadd

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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #441 - Oct 15^th, 2010 at 11:44am

Quote:

Atheism is all very well and good, except when it starts to get militant - like any other world view, including Christianity and Islam.

Who are these Atheists of which you speak?
Are they Neo-Nazis? Are they Socialists or Communists?
What is the system of beliefs of an atheist?

An atheist is merely one who is not a theist.
Even Richard Dawkins gives some possibility of a God.

Is an atheist by default an Aspiritualist?
I have no idea, theists are the ones telling the story and doling out labels.

My assertion (belief) is that there never was a Jesus Christ as believed by Christians. But does it really matter if there was or wasn't a Jesus Christ?
I can still see the morals of his character whether he was fact or fiction and I know plenty of "Christians" who are pretty lousy at making any attempt to live by those morals, in fact, practically all of them.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #442 - Oct 15^th, 2010 at 11:47am

muso wrote on Oct 15^th, 2010 at 7:55am:

Atheism is all very well and good, except when it starts to get militant - like any other world view, including Christianity and Islam.

Lisa, if you can get a copy of it, watch Alejandro Amenábar's excellent film 'Agora'. It might appeal to you as a moderate Christian, as a person who enjoys rational discussions, and as a woman.

If you can't get a copy of it, send me a PM.

It tells the story of Hypatia around the turn of the 4th Century AD in Alexandria, Egypt.

It shows how a belief system, if taken too far, can corrupt people and turn them into thugs to the extent that they seek to destroy all wisdom and beauty.

Many thanks Muso! I certainly will.

Now that film sounds VERY interesting actually.

Umm so .. you reckon I'm a moderate eh??? Interesting .. you'd laugh if I ever told you the truth about my religious background/history. Then again .. you'd probably never believe it lol

However .. you are right .. I do indeed identify as a moderate Christian (if we're going to insist on labels) .. and I do enjoy rational discussions which revolve around spirituality.

There's always something interesting to learn about ourselves and each other.

Kind regards.

Lisa

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #443 - Oct 15^th, 2010 at 11:58am

I can still see the morals of his character whether he was fact or fiction and I know plenty of "Christians" who are pretty lousy at making any attempt to live by those morals, in fact, practically all of them.

- Amadd

Valid comment there Amadd.

Unfortunately over the past 40 odd years of living on this planet .. I've also come to know of so called Christians who have been total and utter hypocrites.

However .. I've come away with an important revelation/conclusion .. hypocrisy cuts across all dimensions of frail humanity .. and it doesn't appear to discriminate against gender/age/culture/religious or political affiliation.

And that's life. And unfortunately life sux at times. We need to work around such people, retain our focus and press on.

Kind regards.

Lisa

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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muso

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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #444 - Oct 15^th, 2010 at 2:26pm

Amadd wrote on Oct 15^th, 2010 at 11:44am:

Quote:

Atheism is all very well and good, except when it starts to get militant - like any other world view, including Christianity and Islam.

Who are these Atheists of which you speak?
Are they Neo-Nazis? Are they Socialists or Communists?
What is the system of beliefs of an atheist?

An atheist is merely one who is not a theist.
Even Richard Dawkins gives some possibility of a God.

Is an atheist by default an Aspiritualist?
I have no idea, theists are the ones telling the story and doling out labels.

My assertion (belief) is that there never was a Jesus Christ as believed by Christians. But does it really matter if there was or wasn't a Jesus Christ?
I can still see the morals of his character whether he was fact or fiction and I know plenty of "Christians" who are pretty lousy at making any attempt to live by those morals, in fact, practically all of them.

Oh they make an appearance from time to time. Stick around on this forum and you'll see them.

They are the ones who are extremely quick to put down any other belief and defend their own position of "atheist" as if it were one of their core values.

A person who self identifies as an atheist is not necessarily aspiritual, but more likely to be.

As far as your other questions go, you're talking about Atheists in general. I very much doubt if we can talk about Atheists in general because they are a pretty diverse group.

I'm just talking about the "card carrying" atheists (They don't really carry a card but you get the idea) who think it's their duty to stamp out "irrational beliefs". They usually have extremist views on how a parent can bring up their progeny for example.

You could probably stamp out irrational beliefs if you set your mind to it, but it would take a few weapons of mass destruction.

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Amadd

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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #445 - Oct 15^th, 2010 at 4:17pm

Quote:

I'm just talking about the "card carrying" atheists (They don't really carry a card but you get the idea) who think it's their duty to stamp out "irrational beliefs". They usually have extremist views on how a parent can bring up their progeny for example.

You could probably stamp out irrational beliefs if you set your mind to it, but it would take a few weapons of mass destruction.

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree by assuming that one can still have their religious hopes and dreams as well as realising that scriptures are the word of man. That realisation would probably spoil the magic...would it? I really don't know.
If you haven't seen this show by Bill Maher called "Religulous", it's worth a look for entertainment's sake alone. It may seem to be a straight out bagging of religions, but there is that clear message that we really don't need any self-fulfilling prophecies.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3791007322683758535#

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darkhall67

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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #446 - Oct 15^th, 2010 at 4:33pm

"A person who self identifies as an atheist is not necessarily aspiritual, but more likely to be."

Spiritual smiritual.

What does spiritual mean anyway?

Believers seem to think that atheists are so devoid of "something" that they cant revel in the beauty of a sunset, or feel awe in a rainforest or see the intrinsic value of a waterfall or bunny shaped cloud.

Those are the kinds of things believers think we atheists are missing out on because we arent "spiritual".

Well we do.

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mozzaok

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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #447 - Oct 15^th, 2010 at 6:34pm

Quote:

I'm just talking about the "card carrying" atheists (They don't really carry a card but you get the idea) who think it's their duty to stamp out "irrational beliefs". They usually have extremist views on how a parent can bring up their progeny for example.

muso

That's me, I had my card embossed with gold edging, and I have instigated a program whereby parents get to swap kids with families of different faiths, so that muslims raise jewish kids, and vice versa, and keep swapping them around every three years, and whatever religion sticks, is the one true faith. Wink

I am also promoting a scheme whereby pacifist families can send their kids to live with neo nazis, so they can learn of the joy in hating jews and black people, I mean why should only kids born to KKK members get all the fun?
I love that all people get to indoctrinate their kids with religion, crikey, if we stopped that we would not be able to join in any religious wars, and there is no fun in being left out.

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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!

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Soren

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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #448 - Oct 15^th, 2010 at 6:46pm

Atheism is no religion but it ain't necessarily any less dogmatic or demagogic for that. If anything, atheism is the result of the 'dogmatic' gene's need to settle on some certainty, no matter how petty. It's the worm's declaration of 'there are no worm-gods'. Whoa! Big smacking intellectual milestone, that one.

Being against religious indoctrination in not the monopoly of atheists - something that is not, alas, needless to say.

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muso

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Re: Is atheism a religious belief?
Reply #449 - Oct 15^th, 2010 at 7:47pm

mozzaok wrote on Oct 15^th, 2010 at 6:34pm:

Quote:

I'm just talking about the "card carrying" atheists (They don't really carry a card but you get the idea) who think it's their duty to stamp out "irrational beliefs". They usually have extremist views on how a parent can bring up their progeny for example.

muso

That's me, I had my card embossed with gold edging, and I have instigated a program whereby parents get to swap kids with families of different faiths, so that muslims raise jewish kids, and vice versa, and keep swapping them around every three years, and whatever religion sticks, is the one true faith. Wink

I am also promoting a scheme whereby pacifist families can send their kids to live with neo nazis, so they can learn of the joy in hating jews and black people, I mean why should only kids born to KKK members get all the fun?
I love that all people get to indoctrinate their kids with religion, crikey, if we stopped that we would not be able to join in any religious wars, and there is no fun in being left out.

pssst Amadd - here's one. Grin

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