Australian Politics Forum - Dawkins' "proof" that God doesn't exist

Revenant Junior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 82	Re: Dawkins' "proof" that God doesn't exist Reply #45 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 1:41pm Spirit world? Where is this place? Just because people believe in something doesn't make it true. A lot of people believed that Geelong was going to win the grand final
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freediver

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Re: Dawkins' "proof" that God doesn't exist
Reply #46 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 1:44pm

Revenant wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 12:52pm:

Human feelings and emotions aren't proof that God exists. Belief in God isn't an emotion it's a belief. You may be able to get emotional about that belief, but it's still just a belief that doesn't have any evidence to support it.

And where's the proof that heaven and hell exists?

But belief in human emotions is a belief.

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Revenant Junior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 82	Re: Dawkins' "proof" that God doesn't exist Reply #47 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 1:55pm Are we discussing the existence of God or the existence of emotions?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48839 At my desk.	Re: Dawkins' "proof" that God doesn't exist Reply #48 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 2:03pm We are discussing methodologies.
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Yadda

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Re: Dawkins' "proof" that God doesn't exist
Reply #49 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 2:11pm

Revenant wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 1:41pm:

Spirit world?

Where is this place?

Just because people believe in something doesn't make it true.
A lot of people believed that Geelong was going to win the grand final

".......Just because people believe in something doesn't make it true."

True.

Likewise, if i experience something, and you do not, does that prove that my experience is irrelevant, or invalid???

Watch this YOUTUBE presentation....
....this is not evidence, it is just an explanation of perhaps how, ppl cannot 'sense' another dimension / reality.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWyTxCsIXE4

Because you have not seen, or experienced something, is that proof, that such a reality / experience, does not exist, or is not valid???

Duh!

If you want to believe that, if you want to hold that type of position, go ahead.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Kytro

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Re: Dawkins' "proof" that God doesn't exist
Reply #50 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 2:53pm

Yadda wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 1:19pm:

Revenant,

Believers [in God] are at a tremendous disadvantage.
.....the material world is apparent to all.
.....but the spirit world is not apparent to the material world.

Also, science [rightly] says,
......"If something is not apparent, then it does not exist. That is science!"

Yet those dumb Christians,
.....they still believe in God.

Duh!

I wouldn't say dumb, but certainly the belief isn't rational.

Yadda wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 1:19pm:

I am certain that some believe, because they read the bible, and it just makes sense to them, and they have come to trust in God [and his existence].

Some people have a variety of things that "make sense to them" that does not make them credible or believable.

Yadda wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 1:19pm:

Can these ppl prove this experience to others?

No.

Why not?

It is, 'the nature of the beast' [i.e. the spirit world is unprovable, in the material world].

The problem is that not only is there no way to prove it, but personal experience is a poor guide to things we have no comparison mechanism.

Yadda wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 1:19pm:

Example.....

For some reason God revealed himself to this woman...
....[and my own experience leads me to believe her account here.]

Search for Yasmin's name in this timesonline news article.

And, don't Yasmin's *circumstances*, demonstrate her conviction, in relating this account?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article510589.ece

People will stand up for what they believe, but that doesn't make it fact.

Yadda wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 1:19pm:

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

How very convenient that you must first surrender reason before you can find the truth Roll Eyes

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Yadda

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Re: Dawkins' "proof" that God doesn't exist
Reply #51 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 3:32pm

Kytro wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 2:53pm:

People will stand up for what they believe, but that doesn't make it fact.

true.

Kytro wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 2:53pm:

Yadda wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 1:19pm:

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

How very convenient that you must first surrender reason before you can find the truth Roll Eyes

Kytro,

In my experience, looking for, searching for, TRUTH is not irrational, or a surrender of reason.

For example....

Evolutionists says [claim] that creation is a fable.

But the so-called 'science' of evolution is built on a foundation of sand.....

For many decades science has *taught* that petrification [mineralisation of organic material] takes millions of years.

But it has been proved, that petrification of organic material can take place, in less than 20 years.
http://hissheep.org/evolution/proof_of_rapid_petrification.html
http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/5179/

Google,
rapid petrification
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=rapid+petrification&btnG=Google+Search&m...

Think of the consequences of this *fact*, on our understanding of the age of [dinosaur] fossils.

'Scientific' dating of geologic layers is a fraud....

In June of 1992, Dr Austin collected a 7-kg (15-lb) block of dacite from high on the lava dome......
The laboratory was not told that the specimen came from the lava dome at Mount St Helens and was only 10 years old.
.....the [dating] results ranged from 340,000 to 2.8 million years! Why?
.....the results from the different samples of the *same rock* disagree with each other.
It is clear that radioisotope dating is not....proof for millions of years of Earth history.
When the method is tested on rocks of known age, it fails miserably.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v23/i3/radiodating.asp

Google,
fossil dating a fraud
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=fossil+dating+a+fraud&btnG=Google+Search...

Don't you consider it perverse that [some] scientists do suppress, or ignore, evidence which could be viewed as contradictory to 'mainstream' hypothesises [e.g. evolution]?

Or that sometimes scientists will falsify evidence, because there are grants of $$$$$$, at stake.

The theory of 'Evolution' is a belief [system], er aka, .....religion, a fable???

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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freediver

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Re: Dawkins' "proof" that God doesn't exist
Reply #52 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 3:39pm

Every field of study has it's own set of standards for what is acceptable evidence. This does not somehow make them more or less valid, or more or less important.

Stephen Jay Ghould wrote an interesting series of books on the issue. His last one - the Hedgehog, the Fox and the Magister's Pox - is an interesting account of the supposed conflict between the arts and the sciences, and the competing claims for validity.

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muso

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Re: Dawkins' "proof" that God doesn't exist
Reply #53 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 3:45pm

Revenant wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 1:41pm:

Spirit world?

Where is this place?

It's on the Gold Coast, between Dreamworld and Movie World. You can get a carton of Jack Daniels for $79.99

Well Dawkins is right - for Dawkins. Like me, he doesn't believe in God. He obviously thinks that's a good thing.

I just feel a sense of loss. I envy them. Religious people seem to have a lot of fun with these round bell things er....tambourines and guitars and stuff. I have this strange urge to shave my head, put a vacant smile on my face and dance around the streets singing Hare Krishna. Of course I'd get bored with it after a day or so.

- but you've got to ask the question. For an Atheist, why is he so interested in the Christian God? Maybe he has a sense of loss too.

It's probably something that happened in his childhood.

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« Last Edit: Oct 17^th, 2008 at 3:54pm by muso »

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Yadda

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Re: Dawkins' "proof" that God doesn't exist
Reply #54 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 3:54pm

Kytro wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 2:53pm:

People will stand up for what they believe, but that doesn't make it fact.

True.

Kytro, i don't believe in "the fossil record",
....NOT AS PRESENTED BY 'SCIENTISTS' TODAY.

Yes, there *are* fossils being dug up.

But how can science be certain that those dinosaurs lived hundreds of millions of years ago?

All of the 'science' which supports such a hypothesis, is just another form of religious belief.
i.e. the dating of fossils, being hundreds of millions of years old, is an unproven science [it is another 'religious' belief system]

And the high priests of this 'religion' are scientists.

My contention is that, dinosaurs lived with man, before the flood.

Kytro, i concede that my assertions are just a hypothesis.

+++++

What about this 'science'?.....

"A Tyrannosaurus rex fossil has yielded what appear to be the only preserved soft tissues ever recovered from a dinosaur. Taken from a 70-MILLION-YEAR-OLD THIGHBONE, the structures look like the blood vessels, cells, and proteins involved in bone formation."

Soft tissue taken from a 70-MILLION-YEAR-OLD THIGHBONE of a T-rex???

Poppycock!

Google....
soft tissue t-rex
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=soft+tissue+t-rex&btnG=Google+Search&met...

Item at the National Geographic Society site....
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/03/0324_050324_trexsofttissue.html

According to science, SOFT TISSUE from a T-rex has survived for 70-MILLION-YEARS.

And if you believe that, do you also believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden????

What ya gonna believe???

+++++

Romans 1:21
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Revenant

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Re: Dawkins' "proof" that God doesn't exist
Reply #55 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 4:01pm

freediver wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 3:39pm:

Every field of study has it's own set of standards for what is acceptable evidence. This does not somehow make them more or less valid, or more or less important.

Stephen Jay Ghould wrote an interesting series of books on the issue. His last one - the Hedgehog, the Fox and the Magister's Pox - is an interesting account of the supposed conflict between the arts and the sciences, and the competing claims for validity.

Yeah. I'm sure there've been a great many things written by theists trying to justify why God exists despite any evidence. Man made God not the other way around and I'll continue to accept that as being a fact until I'm shown otherwise.

The debates that theists engage in about what constitutes evidence is an admission on their part that there is no evidence to support the existence of God. So therefore they actually agree with the atheists. They just don’t know it. Cheesy

I reminded of the saying "most Catholics don't believe in God, but they're too scared to admit it."

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48839 At my desk.	Re: Dawkins' "proof" that God doesn't exist Reply #56 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 4:07pm Ghould is not a theist and was not trying to justify anything about God. He's the guy who came up with the theory of punctuated equilibria.
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Revenant Junior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 82	Re: Dawkins' "proof" that God doesn't exist Reply #57 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 4:09pm I didn't say that Ghould was a theist.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48839 At my desk.	Re: Dawkins' "proof" that God doesn't exist Reply #58 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 4:13pm Neither did I. I guess we have something in common now.
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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 21640 A cat with a view	Re: Dawkins' "proof" that God doesn't exist Reply #59 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 4:21pm Revenant wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 4:01pm: The debates that theists engage in about what constitutes evidence is an admission on their part that there is no evidence to support the existence of God. So therefore they actually agree with the atheists. They just don’t know it. LOL Yadda
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