Australian Politics Forum - The Trojan Horse that was

BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: The Trojan Horse that was
Reply #45 - Jan 6^th, 2008 at 8:25pm

deepthought wrote on Jan 5^th, 2008 at 5:10pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Jan 5^th, 2008 at 12:44pm:

deepthought wrote on Jan 5^th, 2008 at 10:24am:

Quote:

deepthought wrote on Jan 5^th, 2008 at 7:24am:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Jan 5^th, 2008 at 1:05am:

You're a freak, mate!

Alright then, I am one.

I voted Liberal.

Yes you did and YOU lost. lol

Lost the battle perhaps but I was always right to fight it.

I was right about rising prices and interest rates, rising unemployment, rising industrial action and falling confidence. And while there is little consolation in being right in a world of pain I at least prepared for it by minimising debt, investing heavily and whacking away reserves. I suspect many are on the brink and will soon go under.

I can survive in a well stocked fortress until the battle is to be fought and won. And I can chuckle, as people like you oceans see that I was right.

Many many people cannot afford a house.

But that could never be Johnnys fault because you just want to $@#$@!*#%^!$@^$%#&@!!!

Huh

Then they never will be able to. Interest rates hit a 30 year record low under Johnny. If people can not afford finance at record interest rate lows then they will never be able to borrow. Johnny made it possible for anyone with the capacity to make the payments easy with such astonishingly low interest rates, and what's more he made it possible for more people to have jobs than had had them in 40 years.

The conditions were right. But you have missed your chance and you will not get it under Little Kevvy's Tyranny as interest rates rise without central bank action under Kevvy. We knew that though which is why wise people made sure they were insulated against the horror of Liebor.

I voted Liberal.

The disposable income spent on the mortagage was higher under Howard.

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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deepthought

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Re: The Trojan Horse that was
Reply #46 - Jan 6^th, 2008 at 9:49pm

Aussie wrote on Jan 6^th, 2008 at 7:44pm:

Quote:

n November as Liebor wrested control from the coalition unemployment hit a high not seen since the beginning of 2007. In November as Liebor wrested control from the coalition 80% of new jobs created were part time (compare this with 90% full time under the coalition). Industry is not willing to take on full time workers with the threat of industrial action, a new industrial regime and the return of the 'unfair dismissal' penalty.

Rubbish.......Labor defeated the Lieberals..........yes? Australians said bugger off, hayseed.

Yes, and now the unions have come calling, unemployment is rising and the banks are taking preventive measures by increasing interest rates. Why are people so foolish Aussie?

Aussie wrote on Jan 6^th, 2008 at 7:44pm:

Quote:

Banks act accordingly. They don't wait until it is too late to protect themselves. If I can see the writing on the wall don't you reckon the banks can too?

Are you saying there would have been a different outcome if hayseed had won? Yes, you are.

Indeed there would have been. No union action, continuing low unemployment and no interest rate rise independent of the Reserve Bank.

But Australia chose to be punished - you keep saying so.

Aussie wrote on Jan 6^th, 2008 at 7:44pm:

Quote:

And there is ample evidence John Howard threatened to resign as Treasurer. He and Big Mal disagreed on many things. Perhaps you did not see it but it happened. Only when John Howard made it in 1996 could he implement the things he always wanted to. The results speak for themselves.

.....but, he failed to resign....while Australia suffered.

No, he failed to resign and kept some sense in government. Had he resigned Fraser would have been as useless as Hawke and Cheating and the pain would have been as great as that which followed Fraser.

Have you listened to Fraser as Johnny has created an amazing Australia? He is like Cheating - taking a completely negative view. Fraser would have made an excellent Liebor pollie. He, Hawke and Cheating have complained loud and long about Johnny - but they have been proven wrong by the lowest interest rates in 30 years, lowest unemployment in 40 years and the lowest industrial action in nigh on 100 years.

All that is about to change.

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deepthought

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Re: The Trojan Horse that was
Reply #47 - Jan 6^th, 2008 at 10:07pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Jan 6^th, 2008 at 8:25pm:

The disposable income spent on the mortagage was higher under Howard.

That is because house prices were higher. But remember this - as house prices grew wealth grew, and as interest rates fell the investment in the capital grew.

Would you prefer it if house prices fell and people's investments were wiped out? Hawke and Cheating did that to Australians when property crashed as interest rates rose. Would you like to see it again? It caused a lot of suffering.

One record Messrs Hawke & Cheating did manage to achieve was a peak in male suicides. After 13 years of the horror male suicides hit levels not seen for 30 years. Now (I believe) this awful statistic has returned to pre-Liebor levels.

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40758 Gender:	Re: The Trojan Horse that was Reply #48 - Jan 7^th, 2008 at 11:03am DT - bump. how come the ALPers continually ignore the WHOLE story ?? I'ld hope the male suicides arose from causes other than hawke and keating. A bad economy does give rise to that, but us guys should communicate better to each other.
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Acid Monkey

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Re: The Trojan Horse that was
Reply #49 - Jan 7^th, 2008 at 11:29am

deepthought wrote on Jan 6^th, 2008 at 10:07pm:

One record Messrs Hawke & Cheating did manage to achieve was a peak in male suicides. After 13 years of the horror male suicides hit levels not seen for 30 years. Now (I believe) this awful statistic has returned to pre-Liebor levels.

So what are you saying, that a horde of Liberal voters are going to off themselves after the lost of their party and party hero JWH?

Grin

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49133 At my desk.	Re: The Trojan Horse that was Reply #50 - Jan 7^th, 2008 at 11:34am No, they will kill themselves if they lose a bit of money. That's how Liberal voters think isn't it?
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deepthought

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Re: The Trojan Horse that was
Reply #51 - Jan 7^th, 2008 at 6:43pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 7^th, 2008 at 11:03am:

DT - bump.

how come the ALPers continually ignore the WHOLE story ??

I'ld hope the male suicides arose from causes other than hawke and keating.
A bad economy does give rise to that, but us guys should communicate better to each other.

In 1995 I stood with a mate on the side of the road as the bailiff supervised the emptying of the contents of his house into a removalists van for storage. His family were evicted, the locks changed and the house was auctioned for far less than he owed. His family fell apart and have never reconciled - he struggled to see his children as he lived in the back of a borrowed car.

He was wiped out by high interest rates and the collapse of the value of his property. He has never recovered.

But he did not 'off himself'. Though one would understand if he had have done so. I saw the results of Hawke and Cheating's dynastic chaos first hand and it was often the battlers who paid the price.

Freediver, your comments indicate that you have no idea of the reality of the time - that the wealthy got wealthier with Liebor. At no other time in Australian history have we seen a deliberate attempt to enrichen corporate Australia to the detriment of Aussie battlers.

And I hope we never see it again - yet all the signs are there for it to happen again with the new Liebor government.

Male suicide peaked at the end of Hawke/Cheating's ruinous grip on the failed economy. Following the relief of John Howard's takeover, male suicide returned to pre-Liebor figures. What other event could cause the gradual rise in male suicide through the 80s and 90s culminating with a couple of very high peaks at the end of Liebor? Such awful figures had not occurred in Australia since the early 60s and before that the Great Depression. The figures are not coincidence. History does not lie. Tragic economic circumstances can make life unbearable for the vulnerable.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49133 At my desk.	Re: The Trojan Horse that was Reply #52 - Jan 7^th, 2008 at 7:31pm I've always wondered where your blinkered partisanship came from. Thanks for clearing that up, your posts make a lot more sense now. People always seek someone to blame when they feel like they have no control over their destiny.
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IQSRLOW Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 1618	Re: The Trojan Horse that was Reply #53 - Jan 7^th, 2008 at 7:56pm I've always wondered where your blinkered partisanship came from. So what's your excuse FD?
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deepthought

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Re: The Trojan Horse that was
Reply #54 - Jan 7^th, 2008 at 7:59pm

freediver wrote on Jan 7^th, 2008 at 7:31pm:

I've always wondered where your blinkered partisanship came from. Thanks for clearing that up, your posts make a lot more sense now. People always seek someone to blame when they feel like they have no control over their destiny.

Actually when you read my post for the first time you will see it didn't happen to me. I also posted elsewhere I have insulated myself from the horror. Liebor can not affect me. I am quite in control of my destiny.

But some people are not, due to all kinds of circumstances. I just hate to see them exploited so I take up the cause on their behalf. My mate was driven to his knees and I have seen many, many more destroyed by high interest rates and collapsing real estate values. I also saw many businesses collapse during the Pilot's Dispute of the late 80s. Cairns businesses were falling like dead men in battle.

And when I was an employer I met very many desperate people who could not find work as unemployment rose to around 10% with Hawke/Cheating determining their destinies. Sadly I could not employ everyone.

May I suggest you read my posts free. It will help you with your blinkered partisanship.

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: The Trojan Horse that was
Reply #55 - Jan 7^th, 2008 at 8:02pm

deepthought wrote on Jan 7^th, 2008 at 6:43pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 7^th, 2008 at 11:03am:

DT - bump.

how come the ALPers continually ignore the WHOLE story ??

I'ld hope the male suicides arose from causes other than hawke and keating.
A bad economy does give rise to that, but us guys should communicate better to each other.

In 1995 I stood with a mate on the side of the road as the bailiff supervised the emptying of the contents of his house into a removalists van for storage. His family were evicted, the locks changed and the house was auctioned for far less than he owed. His family fell apart and have never reconciled - he struggled to see his children as he lived in the back of a borrowed car.

He was wiped out by high interest rates and the collapse of the value of his property. He has never recovered.

But he did not 'off himself'. Though one would understand if he had have done so. I saw the results of Hawke and Cheating's dynastic chaos first hand and it was often the battlers who paid the price.

Freediver, your comments indicate that you have no idea of the reality of the time - that the wealthy got wealthier with Liebor. At no other time in Australian history have we seen a deliberate attempt to enrichen corporate Australia to the detriment of Aussie battlers.

And I hope we never see it again - yet all the signs are there for it to happen again with the new Liebor government.

Male suicide peaked at the end of Hawke/Cheating's ruinous grip on the failed economy. Following the relief of John Howard's takeover, male suicide returned to pre-Liebor figures. What other event could cause the gradual rise in male suicide through the 80s and 90s culminating with a couple of very high peaks at the end of Liebor? Such awful figures had not occurred in Australia since the early 60s and before that the Great Depression. The figures are not coincidence. History does not lie. Tragic economic circumstances can make life unbearable for the vulnerable.

Why don't you explain the logic of Serfchoices in a time of supposed boom, then!

Johnny won't be remebered for nothing!

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: The Trojan Horse that was
Reply #56 - Jan 7^th, 2008 at 8:06pm

deepthought wrote on Jan 7^th, 2008 at 7:59pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 7^th, 2008 at 7:31pm:

I've always wondered where your blinkered partisanship came from. Thanks for clearing that up, your posts make a lot more sense now. People always seek someone to blame when they feel like they have no control over their destiny.

Actually when you read my post for the first time you will see it didn't happen to me. I also posted elsewhere I have insulated myself from the horror. Liebor can not affect me. I am quite in control of my destiny.

But some people are not, due to all kinds of circumstances. I just hate to see them exploited so I take up the cause on their behalf. My mate was driven to his knees and I have seen many, many more destroyed by high interest rates and collapsing real estate values. I also saw many businesses collapse during the Pilot's Dispute of the late 80s. Cairns businesses were falling like dead men in battle.

And when I was an employer I met very many desperate people who could not find work as unemployment rose to around 10% with Hawke/Cheating determining their destinies. Sadly I could not employ everyone.

May I suggest you read my posts free. It will help you with your blinkered partisanship.

I don't think you understood the bit about disposable income spent on the mortgage.

Cry

Also, you can't explain the logic of Serfchoices in a time of supposed boom.

Lips Sealed

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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deepthought

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Re: The Trojan Horse that was
Reply #57 - Jan 7^th, 2008 at 8:09pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Jan 7^th, 2008 at 8:02pm:

deepthought wrote on Jan 7^th, 2008 at 6:43pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 7^th, 2008 at 11:03am:

DT - bump.

how come the ALPers continually ignore the WHOLE story ??

I'ld hope the male suicides arose from causes other than hawke and keating.
A bad economy does give rise to that, but us guys should communicate better to each other.

In 1995 I stood with a mate on the side of the road as the bailiff supervised the emptying of the contents of his house into a removalists van for storage. His family were evicted, the locks changed and the house was auctioned for far less than he owed. His family fell apart and have never reconciled - he struggled to see his children as he lived in the back of a borrowed car.

He was wiped out by high interest rates and the collapse of the value of his property. He has never recovered.

But he did not 'off himself'. Though one would understand if he had have done so. I saw the results of Hawke and Cheating's dynastic chaos first hand and it was often the battlers who paid the price.

Freediver, your comments indicate that you have no idea of the reality of the time - that the wealthy got wealthier with Liebor. At no other time in Australian history have we seen a deliberate attempt to enrichen corporate Australia to the detriment of Aussie battlers.

And I hope we never see it again - yet all the signs are there for it to happen again with the new Liebor government.

Male suicide peaked at the end of Hawke/Cheating's ruinous grip on the failed economy. Following the relief of John Howard's takeover, male suicide returned to pre-Liebor figures. What other event could cause the gradual rise in male suicide through the 80s and 90s culminating with a couple of very high peaks at the end of Liebor? Such awful figures had not occurred in Australia since the early 60s and before that the Great Depression. The figures are not coincidence. History does not lie. Tragic economic circumstances can make life unbearable for the vulnerable.

Why don't you explain the logic of Serfchoices in a time of supposed boom, then!

Johnny won't be remebered for nothing!

It's easy, remove the draconian 'unfair dismissal' legislation, allow the individuals the choices they are denied under Liebor governments and reward people according to productivity and profit. Win, win, win.

And the evidence is there to see. The lowest unemployment in 40 years, the lowest incidence of industrial disputation in nearly 100 years, real average wage rises (unlike the real wage drop under Liebor) and astonishing household wealth. How much better could it have been?

We'll never know - it has gone into reverse since November.

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deepthought

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Re: The Trojan Horse that was
Reply #58 - Jan 7^th, 2008 at 8:10pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Jan 7^th, 2008 at 8:06pm:

deepthought wrote on Jan 7^th, 2008 at 7:59pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 7^th, 2008 at 7:31pm:

I've always wondered where your blinkered partisanship came from. Thanks for clearing that up, your posts make a lot more sense now. People always seek someone to blame when they feel like they have no control over their destiny.

Actually when you read my post for the first time you will see it didn't happen to me. I also posted elsewhere I have insulated myself from the horror. Liebor can not affect me. I am quite in control of my destiny.

But some people are not, due to all kinds of circumstances. I just hate to see them exploited so I take up the cause on their behalf. My mate was driven to his knees and I have seen many, many more destroyed by high interest rates and collapsing real estate values. I also saw many businesses collapse during the Pilot's Dispute of the late 80s. Cairns businesses were falling like dead men in battle.

And when I was an employer I met very many desperate people who could not find work as unemployment rose to around 10% with Hawke/Cheating determining their destinies. Sadly I could not employ everyone.

May I suggest you read my posts free. It will help you with your blinkered partisanship.

I don't think you understood the bit about disposable income spent on the mortgage.

Cry

Also, you can't explain the logic of Serfchoices in a time of supposed boom.

Lips Sealed

I understand perfectly and I have already explained the genius of WorkChoices.

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Aussie

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Re: The Trojan Horse that was
Reply #59 - Jan 7^th, 2008 at 9:11pm

Delerium Tremins wrote:

Quote:

My mate was driven to his knees and I have seen many, many more destroyed by high interest rates and collapsing real estate values. I also saw many businesses collapse during the Pilot's Dispute of the late 80s. Cairns businesses were falling like dead men in battle.

Well, that is not what is happening. There are no 'collapsing real estate values,' anywhere in Australia.

There is no current pilot strike.

Quote:

And when I was an employer I met very many desperate people who could not find work as unemployment rose to around 10% with Hawke/Cheating determining their destinies. Sadly I could not employ everyone.

May I suggest you read my posts free. It will help you with your blinkered partisanship.

You sacked some of your staff......why? What business were you in? When?

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