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The Trojan Horse that was (Read 18511 times)
deepthought
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Re: The Trojan Horse that was
Reply #60 - Jan 7th, 2008 at 10:03pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jan 7th, 2008 at 9:11pm:
Delerium Tremins wrote:

Quote:
My mate was driven to his knees and I have seen many, many more destroyed by high interest rates and collapsing real estate values.  I also saw many businesses collapse during the Pilot's Dispute of the late 80s.  Cairns businesses were falling like dead men in battle.


Well, that is not what is happening.  There are no 'collapsing real estate values,' anywhere in Australia.

There is no current pilot strike.



You should be aware that there is a fairly long lead time for the results to appear as people will generally do everything they can before being forced off their properties.  The stress can be many months if not years long - and the legal process can be delayed for a similar length of time before the inevitable.   I don't expect to see people forced out of their homes soon, but it will happen, and I don't expect to see collapsing real estate values soon either - however as unemployment rises further and government interference kicks in it is only a matter of time.

The banks independent action in raising interest rates last week is indicative of their thinking on this - it mirrors mine.  They are hedging against defaults.  Everyone should take heed.

And while you may be right that airline pilots are not in dispute . . . .

Quote:
Delays possible as Qantas talks fail

THOUSANDS of Qantas passengers could experience delays next week, with the airline's engineers saying they would take industrial action over the failure of last-ditch talks to broker a pay deal.

The engineers' union wrote to Qantas late yesterday after day-long talks broke down, informing the airline that its members would be banned from working overtime from Wednesday.

The dispute could affect thousands of holidaymakers and corporate clients, although Qantas and the engineers' union say the initial impact will be minimal.

Paul Cousins, federal president of the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association, said the protected industrial action would include stop-work meetings and secondments if the dispute was not resolved quickly.

"When the overtime bans kick in you probably won't see an immediate impact, but it will all depend on the serviceability within the fleet," he said. "If the serviceability remains high then you probably won't see a lot of effect, but if it starts to decline and you have a couple of aircraft go to the US, then they obviously won't be able to draw on extra manpower, and that is when some aircraft may need to be grounded."

Grounded you say?  How will Aussie spin this?

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BatteriesNotIncluded
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Re: The Trojan Horse that was
Reply #61 - Jan 8th, 2008 at 1:28am
 
deepthought wrote on Jan 7th, 2008 at 8:09pm:
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Jan 7th, 2008 at 8:02pm:
deepthought wrote on Jan 7th, 2008 at 6:43pm:
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 7th, 2008 at 11:03am:
DT - bump.

how come the ALPers continually ignore the WHOLE story ??

I'ld hope the male suicides arose from causes other than hawke and keating.
A bad economy does give rise to that, but us guys should communicate better to each other.


In 1995 I stood with a mate on the side of the road as the bailiff supervised the emptying of the contents of his house into a removalists van for storage.   His family were evicted, the locks changed and the house was auctioned for far less than he owed.  His family fell apart and have never reconciled - he struggled to see his children as he lived in the back of a borrowed car.

He was wiped out by high interest rates and the collapse of the value of his property.  He has never recovered.

But he did not 'off himself'.  Though one would understand if he had have done so.  I saw the results of Hawke and Cheating's dynastic chaos first hand and it was often the battlers who paid the price.  

Freediver, your comments indicate that you have no idea of the reality of the time - that the wealthy got wealthier with Liebor.  At no other time in Australian history have we seen a deliberate attempt to enrichen corporate Australia to the detriment of Aussie battlers.

And I hope we never see it again - yet all the signs are there for it to happen again with the new Liebor government.

Male suicide peaked at the end of Hawke/Cheating's ruinous grip on the failed economy.  Following the relief of John Howard's takeover, male suicide returned to pre-Liebor figures.  What other event could cause the gradual rise in male suicide through the 80s and 90s culminating with a couple of very high peaks at the end of Liebor?  Such awful figures had not occurred in Australia since the early 60s and before that the Great Depression.  The figures are not coincidence.  History does not lie.  Tragic economic circumstances can make life unbearable for the vulnerable.


Why don't you explain the logic of Serfchoices in a time of supposed boom, then!

Johnny won't be remebered for nothing!


It's easy, remove the draconian 'unfair dismissal' legislation, allow the individuals the choices they are denied under Liebor governments and reward people according to productivity and profit.  Win, win, win.  

And the evidence is there to see.  The lowest unemployment in 40 years, the lowest incidence of industrial disputation in nearly 100 years, real average wage rises (unlike the real wage drop under Liebor) and astonishing household wealth.  How much better could it have been?

We'll never know - it has gone into reverse since November.


Which "individuals" are you talking about?

Why did the Liberals kill Serfchoices if it was so good?
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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
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deepthought
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Re: The Trojan Horse that was
Reply #62 - Jan 8th, 2008 at 6:46am
 
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Jan 8th, 2008 at 1:28am:
Which "individuals" are you talking about?

Why did the Liberals kill Serfchoices if it was so good?


An individual is anyone at all.  You are an individual.  As am I.

The Liberals are not in government and have no power to do anything.  They have done no 'killing'.  WorkChoices will be killed by the Liebor Party because they oppose freedom to choose and believe they should do your thinking for you.
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« Last Edit: Jan 8th, 2008 at 7:39am by deepthought »  
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BatteriesNotIncluded
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Re: The Trojan Horse that was
Reply #63 - Jan 8th, 2008 at 1:56pm
 
deepthought wrote on Jan 8th, 2008 at 6:46am:
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Jan 8th, 2008 at 1:28am:
Which "individuals" are you talking about?

Why did the Liberals kill Serfchoices if it was so good?


An individual is anyone at all.  You are an individual.  As am I.

The Liberals are not in government and have no power to do anything.  They have done no 'killing'.  WorkChoices will be killed by the Liebor Party because they oppose freedom to choose and believe they should do your thinking for you.


Are you not crumbling, as all rust does?

  Grin

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
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Aussie
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Re: The Trojan Horse that was
Reply #64 - Jan 8th, 2008 at 3:36pm
 
deepthought wrote on Jan 8th, 2008 at 6:46am:
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Jan 8th, 2008 at 1:28am:
Which "individuals" are you talking about?

Why did the Liberals kill Serfchoices if it was so good?


An individual is anyone at all.  You are an individual.  As am I.

The Liberals are not in government and have no power to do anything.  They have done no 'killing'.  WorkChoices will be killed by the Liebor Party because they oppose freedom to choose and believe they should do your thinking for you.



You know very well what was meant.  Here try this.

Please explain why Nelson, not long after the Lieberals and hayseed were sent packing, formally abandoned serfchoices as policy.

Cool
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freediver
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banks and interest rates
Reply #65 - Jan 8th, 2008 at 3:45pm
 
from crikey, a bit of perspective on the itnerest rates issue:

Treasury must have left something out of “the red book”, the incoming minister’s brief it prepared for Wayne Swan.

Last week, ANZ chief economist Saul Eslake admitted the banks would have upped their mortgage rates earlier if it had not been for heavying by Peter Costello. “The main reason why banks haven't moved before this point is, to put it bluntly, because of the extraordinary political pressure exerted on banks by the previous government, and in particularly by the previous treasurer Peter Costello during the lead-up to the last election campaign,” he said.

Now, the ANZ has become the second major bank to raise its mortgage rates independent of the Reserve.

Yesterday, Swan said he would seek briefings from the Reserve and regulatory authorities to ensure banks do not take advantage of their customers. This was seen by the markets as a coded warning.

He was a little less subtle on this morning’s AM, but still seemed to give the banks the benefit of the doubt: “At the end of the day, it is a competitive market out there,” he said, “and customers can vote with their feet.”

They can – but punters like Treasurers go in against the banks with their fists swinging. Sooner or later Swan will need assertiveness training.
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deepthought
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Re: The Trojan Horse that was
Reply #66 - Jan 8th, 2008 at 6:51pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jan 8th, 2008 at 3:36pm:
deepthought wrote on Jan 8th, 2008 at 6:46am:
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Jan 8th, 2008 at 1:28am:
Which "individuals" are you talking about?

Why did the Liberals kill Serfchoices if it was so good?


An individual is anyone at all.  You are an individual.  As am I.

The Liberals are not in government and have no power to do anything.  They have done no 'killing'.  WorkChoices will be killed by the Liebor Party because they oppose freedom to choose and believe they should do your thinking for you.



You know very well what was meant.  Here try this.

Please explain why Nelson, not long after the Lieberals and hayseed were sent packing, formally abandoned serfchoices as policy.

Cool


I can't speak for Brendan but my opinion is he needs to grow some bigger ones.  But that aside no matter what Brendan (or anyone else in the coalition) says they have no effect on policy as they are not the government. 

Mind you he could be very sly though.  I don't know enough about him.


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deepthought
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Re: banks and interest rates
Reply #67 - Jan 8th, 2008 at 7:00pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 8th, 2008 at 3:45pm:
from crikey, a bit of perspective on the itnerest rates issue:

Treasury must have left something out of “the red book”, the incoming minister’s brief it prepared for Wayne Swan.

Last week, ANZ chief economist Saul Eslake admitted the banks would have upped their mortgage rates earlier if it had not been for heavying by Peter Costello. “The main reason why banks haven't moved before this point is, to put it bluntly, because of the extraordinary political pressure exerted on banks by the previous government, and in particularly by the previous treasurer Peter Costello during the lead-up to the last election campaign,” he said.

Now, the ANZ has become the second major bank to raise its mortgage rates independent of the Reserve.

Yesterday, Swan said he would seek briefings from the Reserve and regulatory authorities to ensure banks do not take advantage of their customers. This was seen by the markets as a coded warning.

He was a little less subtle on this morning’s AM, but still seemed to give the banks the benefit of the doubt: “At the end of the day, it is a competitive market out there,” he said, “and customers can vote with their feet.”

They can – but punters like Treasurers go in against the banks with their fists swinging. Sooner or later Swan will need assertiveness training.


The Treasurer whoever he is should use all the encouragement he/she can muster to ensure banks don't act arbitrarily.  Swan let Australia down by watching the fireworks as the mortgagor picked up the tab.

However any efforts should stop short of 'coded warning' which are threats.  Swan is still letting Australia down with his threatening behaviour towards commercial concerns.  It is now he should be watching the fireworks - the horse has already bolted.
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Aussie
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Re: The Trojan Horse that was
Reply #68 - Jan 8th, 2008 at 8:51pm
 
deepthought wrote on Jan 8th, 2008 at 6:51pm:
Aussie wrote on Jan 8th, 2008 at 3:36pm:
deepthought wrote on Jan 8th, 2008 at 6:46am:
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Jan 8th, 2008 at 1:28am:
Which "individuals" are you talking about?

Why did the Liberals kill Serfchoices if it was so good?


An individual is anyone at all.  You are an individual.  As am I.

The Liberals are not in government and have no power to do anything.  They have done no 'killing'.  WorkChoices will be killed by the Liebor Party because they oppose freedom to choose and believe they should do your thinking for you.



You know very well what was meant.  Here try this.

Please explain why Nelson, not long after the Lieberals and hayseed were sent packing, formally abandoned serfchoices as policy.

Cool


I can't speak for Brendan but my opinion is he needs to grow some bigger ones.  But that aside no matter what Brendan (or anyone else in the coalition) says they have no effect on policy as they are not the government. 

Mind you he could be very sly though.  I don't know enough about him.




Well, why, in your opinion, you 'political genius' did the Lieberals ditch WorkChoices as THEIR policy.  While you do that, please explain why, before the 24th November 2007 it was the Saviour of Australia, and now it is not.

What changed, apart from the election result?

Is what was, for about 2.5 years, the Saviour of Australia, no longer so.

What happened DT?
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« Last Edit: Jan 8th, 2008 at 9:18pm by Aussie »  
 
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deepthought
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Re: The Trojan Horse that was
Reply #69 - Jan 8th, 2008 at 9:28pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jan 8th, 2008 at 8:51pm:
deepthought wrote on Jan 8th, 2008 at 6:51pm:
Aussie wrote on Jan 8th, 2008 at 3:36pm:
deepthought wrote on Jan 8th, 2008 at 6:46am:
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Jan 8th, 2008 at 1:28am:
Which "individuals" are you talking about?

Why did the Liberals kill Serfchoices if it was so good?


An individual is anyone at all.  You are an individual.  As am I.

The Liberals are not in government and have no power to do anything.  They have done no 'killing'.  WorkChoices will be killed by the Liebor Party because they oppose freedom to choose and believe they should do your thinking for you.



You know very well what was meant.  Here try this.

Please explain why Nelson, not long after the Lieberals and hayseed were sent packing, formally abandoned serfchoices as policy.

Cool


I can't speak for Brendan but my opinion is he needs to grow some bigger ones.  But that aside no matter what Brendan (or anyone else in the coalition) says they have no effect on policy as they are not the government.  

Mind you he could be very sly though.  I don't know enough about him.




Well, why, in your opinion, you 'political genius' did the Lieberals ditch WorkChoices as THEIR policy.  While you do that, please explain why, before the 24th November 2007 it was the Saviour of Australia, and now it is not.

What changed, apart from the election result?

Is what was, for about 2.5 years, the Saviour of Australia, no longer so.

What happened DT?


I think you will find I already gave my opinion but as you didn't read my post I am happy to repeat it.  "My opinion is he needs to grow some bigger ones".

And you answered your own second question.  What changed?  The election result.

Liebor have canned the saviour as they detest freedom to choose.  They prefer to do your thinking for you.
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deepthought
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Re: banks and interest rates
Reply #70 - Jan 9th, 2008 at 7:25am
 
deepthought wrote on Jan 8th, 2008 at 7:00pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 8th, 2008 at 3:45pm:
from crikey, a bit of perspective on the itnerest rates issue:

Treasury must have left something out of “the red book”, the incoming minister’s brief it prepared for Wayne Swan.

Last week, ANZ chief economist Saul Eslake admitted the banks would have upped their mortgage rates earlier if it had not been for heavying by Peter Costello. “The main reason why banks haven't moved before this point is, to put it bluntly, because of the extraordinary political pressure exerted on banks by the previous government, and in particularly by the previous treasurer Peter Costello during the lead-up to the last election campaign,” he said.

Now, the ANZ has become the second major bank to raise its mortgage rates independent of the Reserve.

Yesterday, Swan said he would seek briefings from the Reserve and regulatory authorities to ensure banks do not take advantage of their customers. This was seen by the markets as a coded warning.

He was a little less subtle on this morning’s AM, but still seemed to give the banks the benefit of the doubt: “At the end of the day, it is a competitive market out there,” he said, “and customers can vote with their feet.”

They can – but punters like Treasurers go in against the banks with their fists swinging. Sooner or later Swan will need assertiveness training.


The Treasurer whoever he is should use all the encouragement he/she can muster to ensure banks don't act arbitrarily.  Swan let Australia down by watching the fireworks as the mortgagor picked up the tab.

However any efforts should stop short of 'coded warning' which are threats.  Swan is still letting Australia down with his threatening behaviour towards commercial concerns.  It is now he should be watching the fireworks - the horse has already bolted.



And it worsens as Wayne Swan decides he is not the people's representative - he is the boss of everyone.  Like Little Kevvy ordering the airport chiefs around Wayne has decided he can order everyone into the principal's office for a dressing down.  Just who do these Liebor tyrants think they are.  Have they forgotten they were voted in - they didn't stage a military coup.

Meantime the remaining banks prepare for the coming recession by making hay before the clouds appear.  Watch out folks - the effects of voting for Liebor loom menacingly . . . .



Quote:
Remaining banks likely to hike rates


INTEREST rate rises from the rest of the major Australian banks are inevitable, according to analysts, despite pressure from the federal government and trade unions.

ANZ yesterday followed National Australia Bank (NAB) and increased its variable interest rate on mortgages, independent of any action by the Reserve Bank of Australia.

The banks cite increased costs from the global credit crisis as the key driver of the increases.
Westpac , Commonwealth Bank of Australia  and St George Bank all have said their standard variable home loan rates remain under review.

Shaw Stockbroking banking analyst David McDonald said it was only a matter of time before the remaining banks follow suit.

"They are experiencing the same problems that NAB and ANZ are, so they should react in the same way,'' Mr McDonald told AAP today.

"If they don't, they might be able to win a bit of market share back, but given there is not a lot of growth in the homeland cycle anyway, it's probably not in their interest to go against the trend.''

Macquarie Research Equities expects the other majors to follow shortly with similar rate rises.

"We believe the other majors (CBA, Westpac and St George) will follow shortly with similar standard variable mortgage rate increases,'' Macquarie said in a January 8 client note.

Federal Treasurer Wayne Swan today demanded ANZ explain its "excessive'' decision to raise home loan rates, saying the bank owes its customers and the government an explanation.

"Excessive rises won't be viewed favourably by the Australian government or Australian families,'' he told ABC Radio.

Mr Swan has summonsed officials from the central bank, Treasury and the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority to a meeting in Brisbane today.

You boys to the headmaster's office.  NOW!

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freediver
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Swan attacks banks over rate rise
Reply #71 - Jan 11th, 2008 at 4:35pm
 
http://news.smh.com.au/swan-attacks-banks-over-rate-rise/20080111-1lgp.html

Federal Treasurer Wayne Swan has singled out another bank for making an "excessive" increase in home loan interest rates.

Mr Swan also said the government would "harshly" judge banks which do not cut their lending rates when the US sub-prime credit crisis subsides.

St George Bank on Friday followed ANZ Bank in announcing a 0.2 percentage point rise in its standard variable rate because of the credit crisis.

Westpac raised its rates by 0.15 points, also on Friday.

"I say to all banks, you will be judged very harshly if you try to take advantage of the US sub-prime crisis by lifting rates excessively."

Mr Swan said while expected, St George and Westpac's rate rises were very bad news for families.

Customers in a competitive banking market would punish banks which excessively lifted rates, Mr Swan said.

"I note also that banks that do not reduce their lending rates as soon as the US sub-prime crisis subsides will be judged very harshly by the Australian government as well their customers."
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deepthought
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Re: Swan attacks banks over rate rise
Reply #72 - Jan 11th, 2008 at 5:27pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 11th, 2008 at 4:35pm:
http://news.smh.com.au/swan-attacks-banks-over-rate-rise/20080111-1lgp.html

Federal Treasurer Wayne Swan has singled out another bank for making an "excessive" increase in home loan interest rates.

Mr Swan also said the government would "harshly" judge banks which do not cut their lending rates when the US sub-prime credit crisis subsides.

St George Bank on Friday followed ANZ Bank in announcing a 0.2 percentage point rise in its standard variable rate because of the credit crisis.

Westpac raised its rates by 0.15 points, also on Friday.

"I say to all banks, you will be judged very harshly if you try to take advantage of the US sub-prime crisis by lifting rates excessively."

Mr Swan said while expected, St George and Westpac's rate rises were very bad news for families.

Customers in a competitive banking market would punish banks which excessively lifted rates, Mr Swan said.

"I note also that banks that do not reduce their lending rates as soon as the US sub-prime crisis subsides will be judged very harshly by the Australian government as well their customers."


Will Wayne summon the boys to his office to get the cane and they will front up with exercise books stuffed down their shorts?

Crikey he's a loser that dude.   I guess his next act is to slip someone an envelope filled with cash to buy a few favours as he did during the 1996 election.
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Re: The Trojan Horse that was
Reply #73 - Jan 11th, 2008 at 8:42pm
 
....and what would that clown Costello have done?
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deepthought
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Re: The Trojan Horse that was
Reply #74 - Jan 11th, 2008 at 11:16pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jan 11th, 2008 at 8:42pm:
....and what would that clown Costello have done?


I don't believe the humorous Peter Costello would have slipped anyone a few notes.  That's more Wayne Swan's thing - he slipped an envelope full of the folding stuff to the Democrats dude.

I don't think Pete's into corruption.
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