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Sodom and Gomorrah (Read 1662 times)
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Sodom and Gomorrah
Feb 25th, 2008 at 10:41pm
 
It was mentioned by someone else, thought to post it for general comment.
Is probably one of the worst stories of the Old Testament.


Genesis 19
Sodom and Gomorrah Destroyed
1 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 "My lords," he said, "please turn aside to your servant's house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning."
     "No," they answered, "we will spend the night in the square."
3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."

9 "Get out of our way," they replied. And they said, "This fellow came here as an alien, and now he wants to play the judge! We'll treat you worse than them." They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.

10 But the men inside reached out and pulled Lot back into the house and shut the door. 11 Then they struck the men who were at the door of the house, young and old, with blindness so that they could not find the door.

12 The two men said to Lot, "Do you have anyone else here—sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here, 13 because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the LORD against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it."

14 So Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who were pledged to marry [a] his daughters. He said, "Hurry and get out of this place, because the LORD is about to destroy the city!" But his sons-in-law thought he was joking.

15 With the coming of dawn, the angels urged Lot, saying, "Hurry! Take your wife and your two daughters who are here, or you will be swept away when the city is punished."

16 When he hesitated, the men grasped his hand and the hands of his wife and of his two daughters and led them safely out of the city, for the LORD was merciful to them. 17 As soon as they had brought them out, one of them said, "Flee for your lives! Don't look back, and don't stop anywhere in the plain! Flee to the mountains or you will be swept away!"

18 But Lot said to them, "No, my lords, [b] please! 19 Your [c] servant has found favor in your [d] eyes, and you [e] have shown great kindness to me in sparing my life. But I can't flee to the mountains; this disaster will overtake me, and I'll die. 20 Look, here is a town near enough to run to, and it is small. Let me flee to it—it is very small, isn't it? Then my life will be spared."

21 He said to him, "Very well, I will grant this request too; I will not overthrow the town you speak of. 22 But flee there quickly, because I cannot do anything until you reach it." (That is why the town was called Zoar. [f] )

23 By the time Lot reached Zoar, the sun had risen over the land. 24 Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the LORD out of the heavens. 25 Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, including all those living in the cities—and also the vegetation in the land. 26 But Lot's wife looked back, and she became a pillar of salt.

27 Early the next morning Abraham got up and returned to the place where he had stood before the LORD. 28 He looked down toward Sodom and Gomorrah, toward all the land of the plain, and he saw dense smoke rising from the land, like smoke from a furnace.

29 So when God destroyed the cities of the plain, he remembered Abraham, and he brought Lot out of the catastrophe that overthrew the cities where Lot had lived.

Lot and His Daughters
30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is no man around here to lie with us, as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Let's get our father to drink wine and then lie with him and preserve our family line through our father."
33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and lay with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.

34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, "Last night I lay with my father. Let's get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and lie with him so we can preserve our family line through our father." 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went and lay with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.

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Re: Sodom and Gomorrah
Reply #1 - Feb 25th, 2008 at 10:42pm
 

Oops, not all of it made it onto the first page. Here is the gripping finale ..............




34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, "Last night I lay with my father. Let's get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and lie with him so we can preserve our family line through our father." 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went and lay with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.

36 So both of Lot's daughters became pregnant by their father. 37 The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab [g] ; he is the father of the Moabites of today. 38 The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi [h] ; he is the father of the Ammonites of today.

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Re: Sodom and Gomorrah
Reply #2 - Feb 29th, 2008 at 5:03pm
 
We were discussing violence in the OT in another thread..... I forgot about the incestuos elements to it. LOL.
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Re: Sodom and Gomorrah
Reply #3 - Feb 29th, 2008 at 6:23pm
 
acid - hahahah.

yes, not always good stuff in the bible.  Not everyone there always does as God wants. Very few do !!

Note though there are reasons for the incestuous act. (be it right or wrong)
And a whole moral to the act itself.
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Re: Sodom and Gomorrah
Reply #4 - Feb 29th, 2008 at 8:24pm
 
So what's the moral of the story sprint?
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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Re: Sodom and Gomorrah
Reply #5 - Feb 29th, 2008 at 9:32pm
 


Both of the offspring of the incest became warring tribes who were never at peace.
The Moabites and the Ammonites were continually fighting.

Although the daughters had good intentions, what they did was wrong.
The results were correspondingly bad.



The moral,

"For God will bring every deed into judgment,
      including every hidden thing,
      whether it is good or evil."
Ecclesiastes 12:14

The intention or reason is not important, the deed itself is.
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Re: Sodom and Gomorrah
Reply #6 - Feb 29th, 2008 at 10:02pm
 
Similar to the story of Abraham's 2 sons - Isaac and Ismael.

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Re: Sodom and Gomorrah
Reply #7 - Sep 18th, 2009 at 1:58pm
 

abu - this is the old thread about incest in the bible that appeared in a recent thread
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Re: Sodom and Gomorrah
Reply #8 - Sep 18th, 2009 at 2:37pm
 
Do you really think a man such as Lot (pbuh) would allow himself to take part in such acts?

Here's an alternative scenario. The OT is largely the writings of Jews, who originally received the true revelation from God, but over time, their scribes "handled it falsely" and modified it to suit their own whims (See Jeremiah 8:8).

So around the point in time when the Jews were at war with the Moabites and Ammonites, they decided to create some propaganda amongst their people, by inserting stuff into their national book about the Moabites and Ammonites being immoral and evil people, descended from incest...

Same for the Edomites and the claims Esau sold his birthright for a bit of food etc.

Most of it just so conveniently happens to fit with the needs and whims of the Israelites at certain periods in their history.

Even amongst themselves, for instance when the family of David (pbuh) was removed from power, and another family took control of Judea, all of a sudden we see claims Prophet David (pbuh) was an adulterer and evil doer...

The NT clearly says the Jews were lying vipers who killed and mocked the Prophets (pbut), and this seems to be a clear case of it.
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Re: Sodom and Gomorrah
Reply #9 - Sep 18th, 2009 at 3:05pm
 
i think lot was drunk and did not know.
it seems lot was a good man, so i assume his daughters were also.
this is evidenced in the passages.
his daughters did that with good intentions, however as the moral of the story says, "the fruit was bad"


if jeremiah said the OT is false and he is in the OT, then what he says might be false and the OT the truth !!
Or, he means that the scribes were saying 'peace, peace, there is peace", when there was not and the scribes were unconcerned with their own sins, when they should be.

Quote:
Even the stork in the sky knows her appointed seasons, and the dove, the swift and the thrush observe the time of their migration. But my people do not know the requirements of the LORD.

They dress the wound of my people as though it were not serious. "Peace, peace," they say, when there is no peace.
Are they ashamed of their loathsome conduct? No, they have no shame at all; they do not even know how to blush. So they will fall among the fallen; they will be brought down when they are punished, says the LORD.


jeremiah 8; 7, 11,12

they do not know the requirement of the lord, does not mean they do not have it.
means the scribes are telling them it falsely and living it falsely

jesus later suports this, he says the scribes KNOW what is right, but don't do it.

Quote:
So you must obey them and do everything they tell you.
But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

matthew 23:3


david prayer of repentance speaks for itself.
he was a man, who like most of us was flawed.
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« Last Edit: Sep 18th, 2009 at 3:14pm by Sprintcyclist »  

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Re: Sodom and Gomorrah
Reply #10 - Sep 18th, 2009 at 3:23pm
 
Quote:
i think lot was drunk and did not know.


Do you think a pious believer would get so drunk that he doesn't even know he's having sex with his own daughters?

Is it even possible to get so drunk you are completely unaware you had sex?? I doubt it, certainly not for a man...

Quote:
if jeremiah said the OT is false and he is in the OT, then what he says might be false and the OT the truth !!


Actually the verse says the Torah, not the OT, my apologies.

So he was referring to the first 5 books only, which is where this 'story' about Lot (pbuh) is.

Quote:
Or, he means that the scribes were saying 'peace, peace, there is peace", when there was not and the scribes were unconcerned with their own sins, when they should be.


It actually says they used their pens to falsify it...

Quote:
david prayer of repentance speaks for itself.
he was a man, who like most of us was flawed.


He was a prophet of God... ie. he spoke God's words and through him God guided humanity... Even most normal humans don't commit adultery.. let alone the most pious of believers.
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Re: Sodom and Gomorrah
Reply #11 - Sep 18th, 2009 at 3:47pm
 

a pious believer would prob need 2 wines to get drunk.
it turned out badly for lot too, i think he went mad and died.


it  says they handled it falsely.
it says they rejected the word of god, it says they had the word of god.
jesus supports this.

david had all sorts of pressures on him, he could have whatever he wanted.
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Re: Sodom and Gomorrah
Reply #12 - Sep 18th, 2009 at 6:32pm
 
The not looking back is a Greek thing, Orpheus in the Underworld.

Lot was incredibly evil, offering a crowd of men his young, virginal daughters to do with as they pleased just so Lot would be left in peace. A scumbag.

Thankfully, I have put all the evil in Abrahamist religion behind me by becoming an atheist.

There is another 'charming' tale in the OT: some kids were sassing an OT prophet about his bald head, so god sent bears to rend the children into little pieces!

Only atheism makes sense.
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Re: Sodom and Gomorrah
Reply #13 - Sep 18th, 2009 at 9:18pm
 
freediver wrote on Feb 29th, 2008 at 8:24pm:
So what's the moral of the story sprint?


While there is good wine to drink, be happy with your lot.
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Re: Sodom and Gomorrah
Reply #14 - Sep 18th, 2009 at 10:21pm
 
Quote:
Lot was incredibly evil, offering a crowd of men his young, virginal daughters to do with as they pleased just so Lot would be left in peace. A scumbag.


Actually he offered them in marriage, so they could leave their despicable practices and engage in a normal healthy sex life. What's so wrong with that?
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