freediver wrote on Jun 11^th, 2008 at 12:35pm:



Woof! My bone!

Well then what did you mean by this? You seem to change the subject quickly every time I bring it up:

I will not be cowed into believing that we must allow muslims to create new enclaves in our country

I meant, I am in opposition to muslim enclaves, within non-muslim communities. Is that clear enough?

Liking or supporting an action, and supporting people's right to do something, are not the same thing. You don't have to like Islamic schools to like the fact that people are free to choose their religion and not be discrimianted against.

I am opposed to 'ALL' religious schools, and only think that they should be allowed NOWHERE, EVER.
School should be school, church should be church, if you want to brainwash kids with your crazy rat arsed religious mumbo jumbo, then do it on the weekend, on your own time, with your own money.

As for stating that not getting support for your school through council is a punishment?, I disagree, hence your question is based on what I consider to be a false premise, and therefore there is no point replying to it.

I agree, do what you want at home to your own kids but get them an education and let them have room to think for themselves. I went to a Catholic school, 1 perion a week of religious studies, not catholic studies, religious studies, more a history lesson than bashing you on the head with a bible.

Thats what I am saying, it wasnt all that religious and a lot of the teachers were there to teach a subject, not a faith.

God love you sprint, you are always one of the good guys, I hope I find you in the throes of connubial bliss.

Look, I don't take any offence at FD's arguments, theoretically I mostly agree with him, but I am talking the harsh and ugly realities, he is talking principles, and I certainly do not wish to see ordinary muslims vilified.
Islamism is however a different kettle of fish, and is deserving of nothing but vilification.
The step between Islam and Islamism, is deceptively small, and often very easy for even the seemingly decent and moderate to take.
A great many will, go over to the dark side, if doing so suits their interests at the time.
That is why Islam cannot fairly demand or receive the same considerations as other religions, not until they put Islamism well and truly behind them.
It is like they are asking for what they want with open arms, but making sure we see the gun in their belt at the same time.
To pretend Islamists do not receive support from the wider Islamic community is also highly questionable.

for muslims the world over to NOT stop the islamics shows the "legitimacy" of their desires

No it doesn't. You are not personally responsible for every nutcase Christian on the loose and you are not expected to chase every one of them down merely because they claim the same religion as you. It's no different for Muslims. You can't hold someone accountable for soemthing they didn't do. By and large, Muslims do stop the nutcases themselves.

JFK, it's like you are from an alternative reality. The majority of Muslims do oppose terrorism. For example close to home, the Indonesian government is working hard to stamp out local extremists. They are still alive. Just think about what you are saying. If the majority of Muslims supported terrorist actions, it would not be terrorism. It would be war. Terrorism is by definition an act carried out by a minority group without a mandate. The majority of Islamic terrorism at the moment is directed at fellow Muslims. If you think terrorism is a problem for our society, it is a disaster for the middle east. Western governments are cautious to frame their aggression in the middle east as a war on terrorism, precisely because they don't want to drive more people to the terrorist groups. Islamic countries and the west are working together to stamp out terrorism.

The presence of extremists is not evidence that they have broad support or that the majority is not working against them. If they had support, they would be running the country, not in jail or hiding from the law.