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Islamic invasion of Camden halted (temporarily) (Read 45478 times)
freediver
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Re: Islamic invasion of Camden halted (temporarily)
Reply #90 - Jun 6th, 2008 at 8:16pm
 
Expanded to mean on a cultural level, not an individual level.

But what does that actually mean? You cannot attack a person's culture without attacking a person. You cannot hold a a culture to account. You might as well blame it on the rain.

I hear muslims in australia complain about their lack of rights, and I say to them, go to Islamic countries and test out your rights there.

Why is a Muslim Australian somehow less deserving of rights? That sort of thing is what people came to Australia to escape. It sounds like the Muslims you complain about have a better concept of what it means to be Australian than you do.
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pope urban 2
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Re: Islamic invasion of Camden halted (temporarily)
Reply #91 - Jun 6th, 2008 at 8:48pm
 
Refugees came to escape, not everyone has a sad story to tell. Money is a big drawcard, you think that word hasnt got back about all the government support you get here, of course it has. Europe is a stones through away and so is Asia, there are a lot of choices and a lot of Muslim countries. Why here. Why Camden.
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Re: Islamic invasion of Camden halted (temporarily)
Reply #92 - Jun 6th, 2008 at 9:08pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 6th, 2008 at 8:16pm:
Expanded to mean on a cultural level, not an individual level.

But what does that actually mean? You cannot attack a person's culture without attacking a person. You cannot hold a a culture to account. You might as well blame it on the rain.

I hear muslims in australia complain about their lack of rights, and I say to them, go to Islamic countries and test out your rights there.

Why is a Muslim Australian somehow less deserving of rights? That sort of thing is what people came to Australia to escape. It sounds like the Muslims you complain about have a better concept of what it means to be Australian than you do.


What that means is that I always respect all people, unless they give me a reason not to.
I do not confuse individuals and their philosophies, but neither do I separate and apologise for totally unacceptable behaviour.
Islam is an ideology running amok.
Youths decapitating strangers, because they can then
cry out, "I have slaughtered a jew, my place in paradise is assured"

This is not a few miscreants displaying aberrant behaviour, this is a culture tending itself to promoting violent and offensive behaviour toward non-muslims, and it is a significant proportion, who share a common religion with others who have not displayed violence, but by maintaining their silence against it, deliver support and tacit approval.

Islamism, is a real problem, and pretending that people who recognise that are wrong, or racist, or divisive is blaming those who do not believe that wishing for a happy ending, is enough to make it so.
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Re: Islamic invasion of Camden halted (temporarily)
Reply #93 - Jun 6th, 2008 at 9:46pm
 
Why here. Why Camden.

Because that's where they choose. It's their choice. It's a free country, remember. Trying to get your new neighbours booted out of the area because you don't like them is pretty unaustralian.

Islam is an ideology running amok.

this is a culture tending itself to promoting violent and offensive behaviour toward non-muslims, and it is a significant proportion, who share a common religion


So which is it? Islamic ideology or a culture among people who just happen to to share the same religion? You seem very keen to find reasons to disrespect people. The actions of people they have nothing at all to do with is hardly a valid reason. You do seem to be doing exactly what you claim not to - confusing individuals and their philosophies.

What that means is that I always respect all people, unless they give me a reason not to.

That's nice. Sort of like saying you're a nice person, unless someone crosses you.
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Re: Islamic invasion of Camden halted (temporarily)
Reply #94 - Jun 6th, 2008 at 11:05pm
 
They are idividuals up to a point but the peer pressure is strong, it is impossible to think out side the box when you may end up in one. How also can you not be aware of the massive number of Muslims willing to murder, its not just a few bad apples, its a huge number and Islam is well know to be a religion of the poor and uneducated, you do not see many successful Muslim countries do you.
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Re: Islamic invasion of Camden halted (temporarily)
Reply #95 - Jun 6th, 2008 at 11:16pm
 
As Malik stated, Islam is not exactly Monolithic. It's even less so than Christianity. I have met Muslims in Turkey who were very different from your stereotypical views. I won't elaborate, but the women in some parts of Turkey are very liberated (the Adriatic coast). I was younger and more reckless then (and not married).

In Africa, I had a long conversation with a Taxi driver in Conakry (in French). He was Muslim, and his wife was Roman Catholic.  "There isn't much difference between Muslims and Christians" he said. "So were you married by the priest or the Imam? I asked.

His reply - "Only rich people can afford such things"

His marriage, like most in Sub-Saharan Africa was defacto.

If it wasn't for the mosqué schools, most of the people there would be illiterate. It was interesting to see French written in Arabic script Smiley

No, Islam is not monolithic by any means.
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Re: Islamic invasion of Camden halted (temporarily)
Reply #96 - Jun 6th, 2008 at 11:32pm
 
Everyone knows most Turks are very moderate and their not Arabs. Arabs consider Turks to be lesser Muslims.
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Re: Islamic invasion of Camden halted (temporarily)
Reply #97 - Jun 7th, 2008 at 6:25am
 
Back to basics, but first I will reply to FD's statement.


What that means is that I always respect all people, unless they give me a reason not to.(me)

That's nice. Sort of like saying you're a nice person, unless someone crosses you.(FD)

Yes FD, that is exactly what that means.
We, of western cultures, are being crossed by influential elements that are not insignificant in the Islamic culture, to merely hope that if we are nice, and just put up with it, then that will may make them stop plotting and killing, is not a course of action which I give credence to.

I would prefer that they self regulated, I would prefer to not have to worry about where I wish to go, in case my mere presence as a white face would inspire some deluded zealot to kill me. There barbarity has brought us to this point, where people as moderate as myself, say;

"THIS MUST STOP"

To counter, that dialogue around the campfire, and a good old sing song will fix it, ignores the fact that we are dealing with religious fanatics, who are by definition, the most deluded amongst the delusional, reason is not a part of their cognitive process.

People fear what will ensue if separatist Islamic schools pop up in their communities.
They saw how Bashir turned confused adolescents into murdering automatons in his Islamic school, they know that they do not want that in their community, and that is not an irrational fear.
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Re: Islamic invasion of Camden halted (temporarily)
Reply #98 - Jun 7th, 2008 at 7:26am
 
What scares me much more than Islam is the growth of the Happy Clapper evangelicals in Australia. They entice people to join by lavish advertising campaigns funded by 'Good ol Suthn Baptists'' who donate to the worthy cause of ministering to those 'pore gadless Australians' and sometimes have giveaways, such as white goods to donate to the poor gullible repentants.

The problem with Evangelicals is that they usually have no tolerance even for other Christians. They often regard Catholics as servants of Satan.

They have an insidious toehold in Australia, and they already think they own the place. For example, they think it's ok to put up signs saying "God doesn't believe in Atheists" and similar. They obviously have no worthwhile message themselves if all they can do is criticise and vilify those who don't share their extremist beliefs.

At least the Muslims generally keep to themselves. You don't see them going out trying to influence our young people to waste their lives in the pursuit of religion. 

OK I'll accept that the Evangelicals don't actually kill people. Their end result is the living dead (brain dead).
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« Last Edit: Jun 7th, 2008 at 7:34am by muso »  

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Re: Islamic invasion of Camden halted (temporarily)
Reply #99 - Jun 7th, 2008 at 7:50am
 
I have to disagree Muso, whilst I share in, or even more probably, exceed, your disdain for the 'born again' lot, I do not see them as a greater threat than Islam.

Mostly they are just delusional enough to have their wallets syphoned off by these religious shysters.

The mind boggling hypocrisy, so transparently fueled by personal greed, is often very humourous entertainment.

"I will HEAL YOU, in the name of GEEEESUSS", never fails to crack me up, as they push some old lady over, it is better than Monty Python.
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Re: Islamic invasion of Camden halted (temporarily)
Reply #100 - Jun 7th, 2008 at 9:57am
 
Mozz, you may have some valid concerns, but it has nothing to do with Australian citizens 'invading' Cambden. You say they are individuals up to a point, but you seem to shift that point around arbitrarily as an excuse to discriminate against fellow citizens.
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Re: Islamic invasion of Camden halted (temporarily)
Reply #101 - Jun 7th, 2008 at 11:35am
 
You seem to miss the point, a Muslim is a Muslim first, above all else, then he has a strong link to his birth country, then he is Australian. Australia is number 3 and always will be. I know Lebonese kids who have never been there and still say they are Lebs, not aussies, unless you change that sort of attitude there will always be a difference between us.
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Re: Islamic invasion of Camden halted (temporarily)
Reply #102 - Jun 7th, 2008 at 1:45pm
 
Thank you for your kind words to the members who have expressed support. I really appreciate it and am glad that there are people here who unlike some, are not guided by their hate for Islam but have a true wish to understand what Islam is first.

May God reward you all.

Adz
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Re: Islamic invasion of Camden halted (temporarily)
Reply #103 - Jun 7th, 2008 at 2:32pm
 
pope urban 2 wrote on Jun 7th, 2008 at 11:35am:
You seem to miss the point, a Muslim is a Muslim first, above all else, then he has a strong link to his birth country, then he is Australian. Australia is number 3 and always will be. I know Lebonese kids who have never been there and still say they are Lebs, not aussies, unless you change that sort of attitude there will always be a difference between us.

This I have to say is not simply a Muslim thing im afraid. It happens with the majority of non Anglo migrants that come to Australia. They face some some initial racism or feel very insecure when they come here and then retract back into ghettos of people from their own ethnic groups and go by their identities of being arab, indian, african etc and not being Australian. It's a very tribalistic attitude and is actually forbidden in Islam. I am proudly Australian, even though my father is from Greece and mother from Turkey and I am of their descent, I certainly am an Australian.

I think the fault here lies with the way people bring up their children and I also have to lay some blame on us in Australian community in general because sadly we are quite racist to groups of people who migrate here. My grandparents got it in the 50's when they arrived from Greece and they are white Christians. Perhaps if we were less racist and more welcoming to migrants they would not retract back into their own community groups and would instead integrate into Australian society more.

In addition to that, you said that we are Muslim first. No doubt that I am Muslim first, but do you know what that means? It means that I hold my religious beliefs being the guiding factor in my life as to how I should act. Those very same beliefs dictate that I should follow the law of the land I reside in and contribute to society in a way beneficial to all. It means that if my government told me to do something wrong, such as kill an innocent person I would not do it as my religion forbids such behaviour and teaches me that it is wrong, so if the law of the land grossly contradicts my religion I would not follow it as a Christian or Jew would also not follow such a law as their religion prevents them from doing so. But instead I would vote for another government and work to the best of my ability to change such a law.

I don't see how that is a bad thing.
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Re: Islamic invasion of Camden halted (temporarily)
Reply #104 - Jun 7th, 2008 at 2:33pm
 
You seem to miss the point, a Muslim is a Muslim first, above all else, then he has a strong link to his birth country, then he is Australian.

This is not true to any greater extent than for other religions. Also, Muslim immigrants will have children born in Australia, just like other immigrants. If they had a stronger link to their birth country, they wouldn't have left it. Everyone is an individual with their own priorities. To suggest that all Muslims have the same set of priorities is absurd.
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