Australian Politics Forum - 'trench treachery'

Acid Monkey Gold Member Offline Goth Father Posts: 1064 EU Gender:	Re: 'trench treachery' Reply #135 - Jun 16^th, 2008 at 9:56pm freediver wrote on Jun 16^th, 2008 at 7:14pm: I think hispanics pronounce Jesus differently, regardless of whether they are talking about their mate, or the Biblical figure. To spell it phonetically it would something like "Hey-soos"
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Sprintcyclist

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Re: 'trench treachery'
Reply #136 - Jun 16^th, 2008 at 11:43pm

Acid - As far as I know, it is not the official stance of christianity that the bible is perfect.
from what every muslim has told me, they consider the koran to be perfect.

yes, I like being married. Even when my last marriage was going turtle, I still liked being married.
And, even though we are divorced, there is still that link.

All the best

helian - the early christians decided what to put in the Bible and what not. Since then there have been many versions.
Hence, it is in mans hands.
Just start a thread on the contradictions in the bible if you so wish.
I have not looked into it.

freediver - of course malik is no more knowlegable about terrorists than I am.

Yes, the iraqui policemen are dying by suicide bombers. The majority of iraquis want freedom from the tryanny of the islamists. Who would not ??
How do terrorists exist, but that some people see evil but say nothing ?

yes, I posted the info I had on hand. re trench tactics.
Want me to do it agian ?

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Modern Classic Right Wing

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pope urban 2 Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 271 melbourne Gender:	Re: 'trench treachery' Reply #137 - Jun 17^th, 2008 at 12:02am Even Theologians at the Vatican argue over the meanings in the Bible, most agree though, that a lot of it is purely metaphoric and should not be taken literally. Perhaps the Koran is the same but interpretted more literally.
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Malik Shakur

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Re: 'trench treachery'
Reply #138 - Jun 17^th, 2008 at 12:09am

muso wrote on Jun 16^th, 2008 at 9:46am:

I'm interested in what a mainstream Australian Muslim thinks about this International Caliphate and the whole business of imposing Shariah Law etc.

I would suggest that be in the form of an Islamic Union where all of the nations retain the majority of their independence to set their local laws and govern themselves, Their membership criteria requires them to follow the Qur'an and Sunnah when it comes to the laws and behaviour. Just as certain countries live under the EU and have their laws dictated by the EU member state criteria. An Islamic currency based on the Gold Standard or Islamic Dinar with the economy running similar to the Austrian school of economics, trade ties and a pact similar to NATO in which the states would come to each others aid when one has been attacked and economic support for nations within.

I would encourage such a union to to include the following nations:

Islamic State of AFGHANISTAN
Republic of ALBANIA
People’s Democratic Republic of ALGERIA
Republic of AZERBAIJAN
Kingdom of BAHRAIN
BOSNIA and HERZEGOVINA
BRUNEI-DARUSSALAM
Arab Republic of EGYPT
Republic of GUYANA
Republic of INDONESIA
Islamic Republic of IRAN
Republic of IRAQ
Hashemite Kingdom of JORDAN
Republic of KAZAKHSTAN
KOSOVO
State of KUWAIT
KYRGYZ Republic
Republic of LEBANON
Great Socialist People’s LIBYAN ARAB JAMAHIRIYA
MALAYSIA
Islamic Republic of MAURITANIA
Kingdom of MOROCCO
Sultanate of OMAN
Islamic Republic of PAKISTAN
State of PALESTINE
State of QATAR
Kingdom of SAUDI ARABIA
Republic of SOMALIA
Republic of The SUDAN
Republic of SURINAME
SYRIAN Arab Republic
Republic of TAJIKISTAN
Republic of TUNISIA
Republic of TURKEY
Republic of TURKMENISTAN
State of The UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Republic of UZBEKISTAN
Republic of YEMEN

Leaders of these states would not be allowed to be tyrants or dictators nor gain their leadership through lineage of being the son of a 'king' as we have no monarchy in Islam. Leaders will have no special treatment and will be required to adhere to the same laws as other people, should they become a tyrant then they will be deposed.

There are also human rights standards they must follow and protect the Christians and Jews in their lands, and if there is a 2 state solution with Israel/Palestine they must give Israel trade rights and protections providing that the issue is resolved fully.

I have more ideas on the issue but that is the gist of it.

Massalaama,

Adz

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Acid Monkey

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Re: 'trench treachery'
Reply #139 - Jun 17^th, 2008 at 12:21am

What is the basis of inclusion for these countries on your list - apart from their stated official religion being Islam.

I've noticed that you've mentioned Malaysia. I lived and worked there for 3 years. 60% of her population is Muslim, the balance is a mixture of Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism and Tamil. While some states have the Shariah Law for domestic issues (ie: marriages ethics etc) the common law is very much western and the govt system is the British Westminster system. Shariah Law does not apply to states such as Sarawak and Sabah in the east.

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Malik Shakur

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Re: 'trench treachery'
Reply #140 - Jun 17^th, 2008 at 12:30am

Acid Monkey wrote on Jun 17^th, 2008 at 12:21am:

What is the basis of inclusion for these countries on your list - apart from their stated official religion being Islam.

I've noticed that you've mentioned Malaysia. I lived and worked there for 3 years. 60% of her population is Muslim, the balance is a mixture of Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism and Tamil. While some states have the Shariah Law for domestic issues (ie: marriages ethics etc) the common law is very much western and the govt system is the British Westminster system. Shariah Law does not apply to states such as Sarawak and Sabah in the east.

It would be whichever state would want to be part of it, the list I provided are all in the Organisation of Islamic Countries, the second largest organisation after the UN.

I am aware of Malaysia's laws also.

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pope urban 2 Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 271 melbourne Gender:	Re: 'trench treachery' Reply #141 - Jun 17^th, 2008 at 12:30am Are you sure these countries could work together, with all due respect a lot of Middle Eastern coalitions havent really worked that well and there are a lot of small countries there that may be gobbled up by the more powerful ones, you may end up with a power struggle before too long.
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Malik Shakur

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Re: 'trench treachery'
Reply #142 - Jun 17^th, 2008 at 12:36am

pope urban 2 wrote on Jun 17^th, 2008 at 12:30am:

Are you sure these countries could work together, with all due respect a lot of Middle Eastern coalitions havent really worked that well and there are a lot of small countries there that may be gobbled up by the more powerful ones, you may end up with a power struggle before too long.

you mean being taken over by another country?

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Acid Monkey Gold Member Offline Goth Father Posts: 1064 EU Gender:	Re: 'trench treachery' Reply #143 - Jun 17^th, 2008 at 1:18am Also, there is a general distrust or hatred between the various sects of Islam - Shi'a, Sunni, Sufism, Wahhabi and Ahmadiyya etc.
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Malik Shakur

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Re: 'trench treachery'
Reply #144 - Jun 17^th, 2008 at 1:23am

Acid Monkey wrote on Jun 17^th, 2008 at 1:18am:

Also, there is a general distrust or hatred between the various sects of Islam - Shi'a, Sunni, Sufism, Wahhabi and Ahmadiyya etc.

shia, sunni and sufi can get along with each other very well. they did so for more than a thousand years before the british came... wahabi's will lose their influence due to their leadership being lost in saudi.. and ahmadiyyas are not muslim as they beleive in a prophet after muhammad pbuh.

i would restructure the middle east however, back to the states or provinces that existed prior to the british and french division of the land. if you look at a map of the middle east you will see a lot of the borders between countries are straight lines, its because the british simply got a pen and ruler out and ruled lines to divide the nations up.

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Acid Monkey

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Re: 'trench treachery'
Reply #145 - Jun 17^th, 2008 at 10:53am

Malik Shakur wrote on Jun 17^th, 2008 at 1:23am:

[and ahmadiyyas are not muslim as they beleive in a prophet after muhammad pbuh.

I understand that. They believe in the prophet Mirza Gulam Ahmad and strictly speaking is not be considered a Muslim (because they don't follow the prophet Muhammad).

Nevertheless, in a general sense their sect arose from Islam and therefore would be under the influence/control of the International Caliphate. Their plight would be a harsh one as they are considered heretics (?) by the broader community of Muslims. Eg: the Indonesian clergy wants to have this minority practice banned. Much to their chagrin, the govt is resisting their call under their constitution of freedom of worship. Many Ahmadis have been beaten and/or killed.

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pope urban 2 Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 271 melbourne Gender:	Re: 'trench treachery' Reply #146 - Jun 17^th, 2008 at 6:34pm What, a Muslim killing another Muslim because of their beliefs, Unheard of, surely that would never happen
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Malik Shakur

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Re: 'trench treachery'
Reply #147 - Jun 17^th, 2008 at 7:48pm

Acid Monkey wrote on Jun 17^th, 2008 at 10:53am:

Malik Shakur wrote on Jun 17^th, 2008 at 1:23am:

[and ahmadiyyas are not muslim as they beleive in a prophet after muhammad pbuh.

I understand that. They believe in the prophet Mirza Gulam Ahmad and strictly speaking is not be considered a Muslim (because they don't follow the prophet Muhammad).

Nevertheless, in a general sense their sect arose from Islam and therefore would be under the influence/control of the International Caliphate. Their plight would be a harsh one as they are considered heretics (?) by the broader community of Muslims. Eg: the Indonesian clergy wants to have this minority practice banned. Much to their chagrin, the govt is resisting their call under their constitution of freedom of worship. Many Ahmadis have been beaten and/or killed.

They don't believe the prophet muhammad pbuh him is the last prophet sent by God.

Regardless of the society they originated from their belief is not that of Islam.

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mozzaok

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Re: 'trench treachery'
Reply #148 - Jun 17^th, 2008 at 8:32pm

Any Muslim who refuses to partake in Jihad, is labelled 'Munafiqin', or hypocrite, to Islam, amd therefore subject to be put to death, like any apostate.

It is a pretty handy catch 22 where you can label anyone you kill as an enemy of Islam, and if you get it wrong, then they will be whooping it up with their heavenly sex slaves and probably won't mind anyway.

That is why so many moderate muslims are even more terrified of these Islamic extremists than the west is.

The trouble is that all these loonies find all the justification they need for their barbarity direct from their holy book, so it is hard to say they are not actually the "Truest" muslims.

Scary isn't it.

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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!

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muso

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Re: 'trench treachery'
Reply #149 - Jun 17^th, 2008 at 9:06pm

Malik Shakur wrote on Jun 17^th, 2008 at 12:09am:

[quote author=muso link=1212726620/120#124 date=1213573566]

There are also human rights standards they must follow and protect the Christians and Jews in their lands, and if there is a 2 state solution with Israel/Palestine they must give Israel trade rights and protections providing that the issue is resolved fully.

I have more ideas on the issue but that is the gist of it.

Massalaama,

Adz

Aasalaamu Aleikum,

I can see where you are coming from, but your whole idea is a bit too idealistic for me. Don't get me wrong. I spent some time in Qatar and the Emirates, and I don't have the same suspicions of Islam that many people here do. I enjoyed the very polite society in those countries, and I understand what they distrust in terms of Western culture. I can understand those fears.

I think some of those countries on the list would strongly object to the idea, particularly Turkey, which has had separation of religion and state since Attaturk.

Egypt has a significant Coptic Christian population (unofficially as high as 30%). Palestine is not exactly a glowing example of tolerance, considering that the city of Bethlehem, which used to be 80% Christian is now 15% Christian, thanks to the fact that the authority sanctions the confiscation of their property by various militant sects.

The big surprises on that list are Guyana and Surinam

They might have something to say about that.

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