Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 11^th, 2008 at 1:14pm:

No, its not Muslim history orated by Muhammad pbuh. It is history written down by those at the time and non Muslim historians have verified this information.
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 11^th, 2008 at 1:14pm:

Luke 22:36-38

He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."

The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords."
     "That is enough," he replied.

Jesus pbuh himself told his disciples to sell their property and buy swords to protect themselves.

Many Prophet's also launched wars and participated in them to fight those who were in the Holy Land and to preach monotheism.

Were they all war mongerers? No, they weren't. God told them an order, and they followed it. Like God told Muhammad to fight and rid idols from the the Kaaba.
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 11^th, 2008 at 1:14pm:

These pagan soldiers from the Battle of Badr fought in battle against the Muslims. They were captured after their army was defeated. Instead of executing them or torturing them, he ransomed those who he could off (to make back at least some of the money the Muslims lost due to their possessions being stolen and sold by the Pagans). Instead of executing those whom he couldn't ransom but were literate he got them to each teach 10 Muslims how to read and write and after doing so they were given their freedom. And finally, instead of executing those who could neither pay the ransom nor were literate he simply gave them their freedom. I'm not sure why you have a problem with that because they were not harmed.. Compare that with the way your crusaders behaved in raping, murdering and torturing prisoners during the Crusades you'll see that it is from your side in which the barbarians come from, not the side of the Muslims.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 11^th, 2008 at 1:14pm:


Your absolutely right. It was due to their own hunger for the prizes on the battlefield. In fact there was a Qur'anic verse revealed about it later.

003.152
Allah did indeed fulfil His promise to you when ye with His permission Were about to annihilate your enemy,-until ye flinched and fell to disputing about the order, and disobeyed it after He brought you in sight (of the booty) which ye covet. Among you are some that hanker after this world and some that desire the Hereafter. Then did He divert you from your foes in order to test you but He forgave you: For Allah is full of grace to those who believe.

It was a test on the Muslims and those archers failed it.. They wanted the prize in this life more than they wanted the one in the next life. They should have listened to the Prophet Muhammad pbuh's command and stayed on the hill. But didn't and the Muslims were defeated in the battle.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 11^th, 2008 at 1:14pm:

That is completely incorrect. The trench was made to prevent an army of more than 10,000 Pagans from overrunning Madinah and slaughtering everyone inside. It was suggested as a tactic by Salman the Persian who had experience in the tactics used by the Persians and Romans as he lived amongst them for most of his life. And I sure hope you're actually going to be providing some evidence now because you're beginning to look really stupid here. You throw out all of these big accusations but you are yet to produce a single shred of evidence. Not even the verse in the Qur'an which you claim describes the trench being made to murder jews in.

So it's time to put up or shut up mate, you're only making a fool of yourself by not providing evidence.

pope urban 2 wrote on Jun 11^th, 2008 at 6:53pm:

Let's apply your own twisted logic right here shall we.. Let's look, using such logic on how the CHRISTIAN WEST can be trusted, based on their record.


It was the CHRISTIAN WEST that sent hundreds of thousands of savages in the Crusades to Jerusalem there and massacre every man, woman and child they could on the way. In Jerusalem alone you massacred more than 100,000 Muslims, Christians and Jews. The blood of the inhabitants was flowing up to the knees of the horses.

In the Inquisitions ALL Jews and Muslims were forcibly converted, exiled or murdered.

Then look at recent history, the CHRISTIAN WEST colonialised the Muslim lands and divided them between themselves, installed dictators and still continue to support them.

What about the 1.5 Million Iraqi's from 1991-2002 who died due to the CHRISTIAN WEST's indiscriminate use of Depleted Uranium weapons (which radiate the area they are used in) which caused cancer like there had never been in Iraq, and then the CHRISTIAN WEST placed sanctions on Iraq, preventing them from even getting the medical equipment to diagnose let alone treat it. All because the CHRISTIAN WEST's little puppet whom the CHRISTIAN WEST supplied weapons of mass destruction to so they could use it on Iran stopped being the little puppet and went off the reservation, still armed with those WMD's. Because of those sanctions 1,500,000 Iraqi's are DEAD. 600,000 were under the age of 5.

Then from 2003 onwards another 1,000,000 Iraqi's have died from the WESTS toppling of their little puppet (who we know now, had no more WMD's nor had a connection to Al-Qaeda), and now the WEST wants to keep their troops in Iraq indefinitely as per their "status of forces agreement" that they are trying to impose on the Iraqi's.

And now the CHRISTIAN WEST wants to invade Iran too?

Don't come and tell me about how the West doesn't trust Muslims because of 9/11.. If anything it is the CHRISTIAN WEST that cannot be trusted and that has been demonstrated on so many examples in the last 1000 years. So much blood has been spilled by the CHRISTIAN WEST in Muslim lands, yet you try and continue to make it look like that terrorists hate the CHRISTIAN WEST simply for their freedoms and not because of the blood that has been shed and interference by the West in Muslim lands.

I HATE the terrorists and how weak they are, attacking innocent civilians and blowing themselves up, they make Muslims look bad. But I completely understand why they fight.. As soon as the CHRISTIAN WEST gets over itself and realizes that it needs to get out of the Middle East, stop interfering and stop trying to colonize it then it will see that terrorists would no longer exist.

malik -  it seems you are uncommon amongst muslims. Most say nothing about muslim terrorists. Other muslims acquiesce to them.
If all/most other muslims opposed the islamic terrorists I would not be as opposed to you.
If all muslims opposed saudi arabia, hilali, syria, iran and many militant educated muslim "teachers" across the globe, I'ld be as happy to live with muslims as I am with athiests and agnostics.
As it is, you don't.




By they way, want to apologise for this laughable bit of muslim nonsense ?
"The blood of the inhabitants was flowing up to the knees of the horses."

Wow JFK, are you trying to say that not all Muslims are thoughtless clones programmed to do whatever they are told?

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 11^th, 2008 at 10:23pm:


i do think that the Muslim world needs to be reshaped and all of the oppressive rulers need to be gotten rid of. I think that a proper islamic state covering the whole of the Muslim countries needs to be established.. perhaps a federation of states that adhere to what islamic law says a state should be, one that has good relations with its non muslim neighbours and treats its people well..

most muslims do oppose terrorism, but their argument is simply: what do you expect, when you cause this much havoc and bloodshed in our lands? do you expect it not to come back to you and bite you in the ass?

the only reason why terrorists get even the minute support they do in the middle east is because their governments are brutal dictators. so they see al qaeda as the only people willing to go and fight to liberate them..


Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 11^th, 2008 at 10:23pm:


Those words aren't Muslim nonsense.

It was Raymond of Aguilers who said that "men rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins."

pope urban 2 wrote on Jun 11^th, 2008 at 10:58pm:

haha, thats the most presumptuous things i've ever heard.. i was raised christian by my turkish side and i am certainly not secular.. i've learnt islam from arab sources, and they are just like me.. better even..

pope urban 2 wrote on Jun 11^th, 2008 at 9:44pm:

islam is the largest religion in the world.. we have 1.6billion adherents whereas it's closest rival is catholicism has 1.2billion.

While the Islamic empire may have taken other empires over and expanded that way, it certainly didn't force islam onto anyone.. in fact look at indonesia, the largest muslim population in one nation and islam came there through trade.. not through the sword..

compare that with catholicism, in its name many other 'christians' were brutally massacred because they believed different things, then look at the inquisitions, the crusades, the absolute massacres of the native american tribes.. totally in more than 300 million deaths..

if islam was really about murdering and killing and forcing people to become muslim, we'd have at least had somewhere near the amount of death caused by us as is caused by the catholic church.. but we're nowhere near close.. this world would certainly be on fire if it was in the teachings of islam to go to war with every non muslim..

and you could be damned sure that the jews would no longer exist.. they wouldnt have fled all of europe to come to islamic spain to live under our protection, they wouldnt have been in jerusalem protected by us..

but who did murder and forcibly convert the jews of spain during the inquisition and the jews of jerusalem during the crusades?

oh.. it was the christians.. they are responsible for the most bloodshed on this earth and certainly not the muslims..

how about the CHRISTIAN WEST stays out of the Muslim lands and stop installing dictators and causing bloodshed and then all of  those refugees who are muslim wouldnt have to leave their homelands and could live in peace instead of bothering u..

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 12^th, 2008 at 12:01am:

I'd like to point out that just as the West is not governed by Christianity, the Middle east certainly isnt governed by Islamic Laws. Even if some states claim it, it doesn't make it so. Just as if I was to claim to be a Dr, i wouldn't be.. I have to fit certain criteria to do so.

Saudi is supported by the west, the West enjoys great relations with Saudi and gives it lots of military funding, as do other nations.. Egypt now receives the highest amount of US military aid after Israel, even though the egyptian president rigged the last elections and threw his opponents into prison.

The West supported Syria during the reign of its last president.

The West also looks at libya as its friend now..


Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 12^th, 2008 at 12:01am:

in Islam u can certainly question the Prophet Muhammad pbuh or speak against his actions, but u cannot insult him..

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 12^th, 2008 at 12:01am:

Why should I validate it? I didn't make it up myself.. your the one who doesn't validate what he's talking about.. in fact we're still waiting for your references about the battle of the trench.. are you going to put ur evidence up? or are you a big liar?