freediver wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2008 at 3:10pm:


Read the Toledo Guidelines. Why reinvent the wheel?

freediver wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2008 at 3:10pm:


It makes perfect sense. I would have been the least likely to give him a free ticket out of religion class without considerable discussion.  I didn't want to impose my views as an atheist. It took me many years of careful consideration to arrive at my present position on religion, after having attending approximately 30 different religious establishments looking for that elusive something. 

Apart from that I considered that some appreciation of different religions within society was important if he wasn't going to grow up to be a self-opinionated bigot.

How John Howard shored up private education, by God

Michael Gawenda
June 26, 2008

The continuing battle between creationists and the so-called godless believers in Darwin and evolution was one of the highlights - if it can be described thus - of my time in the United States. Across America, school boards and state education boards were at war over the teaching of creationism in science classes.

But in landmark court decisions, the creationists and their followers were vanquished. The courts ruled that it was unconstitutional to teach creationism as science. Creationism, the courts ruled, was a form of religious belief and to teach it in American schools violated the constitutionally enshrined separation of church and state.

That separation also means there is no overt state funding of "faith-based" schools, which means there is no overt funding of private schools in America.

There is no constitutionally enshrined separation of church and state in Australia. The great battle over state aid for non-government schools was fought and decided a half century ago and it was basically about state aid to the Catholic school system. The proponents of state aid won.

They continue to win. The former prime minister John Howard once told a group of newspaper executives at a dinner at the Lodge that one of his greatest achievements, looking back, would be his government's support for parents' rights to choose the sort of education they wanted for their children.

What he meant was that his government had significantly increased funding for non-government schools. This was designed to accelerate the trend away from the government school system.

It worked. Around 33 per cent of Australian children now attend non-government schools - and that percentage is even higher in NSW and particularly in Victoria where around 40 per cent of year 11 and 12 students attend non-government schools.

The Rudd Government has more or less abandoned any attempt to arrest this trend to private education. Howard has triumphed.

The notion that a secular liberal democracy is underpinned by a free and universal secular education for all children is now well and truly dead in Australia. The Rudd Government will do nothing to revive it.

....

The great irony of Howard's achievement in making private education attainable for families with relatively modest incomes is that he inadvertently also became the great champion of multiculturalism.

If multiculturalism still has any public policy supported by significant taxpayer-funded programs, it's in education. Increasingly, in this post-Enlightenment age in which God is no-longer dead, religion and culture are intertwined to form identity.

Religion is not just a matter of private religious belief. It informs cultural and communal values - our attitudes to women, homosexuality and even scientific inquiry. And those cultural and communal values may vary from faith-based school system to faith-based school system depending on the faith.

....

Given that some faith-based schools in Australia, unlike schools in the US, teach creationism and the pseudo science of intelligent design as legitimate scientific alternatives to evolutionary theory, how many will mark the Darwin anniversaries, let alone celebrate them?

In all probability, a significant number won't. For that, John Howard can take some credit. What an irony given that this was a prime minister who was determined to roll back multiculturalism.

(Source: http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/how-john-howard-shored-up-private-education-by-god/2008/06/25/1214073338065.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1)

That separation also means there is no overt state funding of "faith-based" schools

Any idea what that means in practice?

Acid Monkey wrote on Jun 30^th, 2008 at 9:50pm:


The strange thing is that the US has actually got it right in this case.

Why should we ban religious schools if they provide a somewhat "Better" education for young adolescents and children.
The results in the all Australian school tests with S.C and H.S.C.
Their is more pride in these schools,students are polite and treat other members in the communtiy with respect unlike some Government school student in my Area.

It is not like the government are forcing every single child to religious schools and teachings it is done fairly by choice, i see nothing wrong with this myself becuase is is a self choice issue.

Schoolboys punished with detention for refusing to kneel in class and pray to Allah

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1031784/Schoolboys-punished-detention-refusing-kneel-pray-Allah.html

Two schoolboys were given detention after refusing to kneel down and 'pray to Allah' during a religious education lesson.

Parents were outraged that the two boys from year seven (11 to 12-year-olds) were punished for not wanting to take part in the practical demonstration of how Allah is worshipped.

They said forcing their children to take part in the exercise at Alsager High School, near Stoke-on-Trent - which included wearing Muslim headgear - was a breach of their human rights.

One parent, Sharon Luinen, said: "This isn't right, it's taking things too far.

"I understand that they have to learn about other religions. I can live with that but it is taking it a step too far to be punished because they wouldn't join in Muslim prayer.

"Making them pray to Allah, who isn't who they worship, is wrong and what got me is that they were told they were being disrespectful.

"I don't want this to look as if I have a problem with the school because I am generally very happy with it."

Another parent Karen Williams said: "I am absolutely furious my daughter was made to take part in it and I don't find it acceptable.

"I haven't got a problem with them teaching my child other religions and a small amount of information doesn't do any harm.

"But not only did they have to pray, the teacher had gone into the class and made them watch a short film and then said 'we are now going out to pray to Allah'.

"Then two boys got detention and all the other children missed their refreshment break because of the teacher.

"Not only was it forced upon them, my daughter was told off for not doing it right.

"They'd never done it before and they were supposed to do it in another language."

"My child has been forced to pray to Allah in a school lesson." The grandfather of one of the pupils in the class said: "It's absolutely disgusting, there's no other way of putting it.

"My daughter and a lot of other mothers are furious about their children being made to kneel on the floor and pray to Islam. If they didn't do it they were given detention.

"I am not racist, I've been friendly with an Indian for 30 years. I've also been to a Muslim wedding where it was explained to me that alcohol would not be served and I respected that.

"But if Muslims were asked to go to church on Sunday and take Holy Communion there would be war."

Parents said that their children were made to bend down on their knees on prayer mats which the RE teacher had got out of her cupboard and they were also told to wear Islamic headgear during the lesson on Tuesday afternoon.

Deputy headmaster Keith Plant said: "It's difficult to know at the moment whether this was part of the curriculum or not. I am not an RE teacher, I am an English teacher.

"At the moment it is our enterprise week and many of our members of staff are away.

"The particular member of staff you need to speak to isn't around. I think that it is a shame that so many parents have got in touch with the Press before coming to me.

"I have spoken to the teacher and she has articulately given me her version of events, but that is all I can give you at the moment."

A statement from Cheshire County Council on behalf of the school read: "The headteacher David Black contacted this authority immediately complaints were received.

"Enquiries are being made into the circumstances as a matter of urgency and all parents will be informed accordingly.

"Educating children in the beliefs of different faith is part of the diversity curriculum on the basis that knowledge is essential to understanding.

"We accept that such teaching is to be conducted with some sense of sensitivity."

no malik the deciever, this is islam taking over.
step by step.

free world, sit up and take notice.
England and europe grealty regret making any space for those that will not assimilate.

What a stupid move from us infidels.