muso wrote on Dec 28^th, 2009 at 9:28pm:

Oh really?

Weren't your kids instructed on making their first confession, first communion, their confirmation? Were they not instructed in Catechism? No compulsory attendance at Mass (during school hours on all saints day) on holy days of obligation? No prayers for a plenary indulgence for all the faithful departed?

The Catholic schools I went to or ever heard of made damn sure the kids were taught how to be a Catholic.

muso wrote on Dec 28^th, 2009 at 10:42pm:

Fair enough... Must be a whole other thing going on with Catholicism where you live.

I was talking to a guy at work recently about Catholic education. He's a father of two pre-schoolers and the most lapsed of lapsed Catholics (so disinterested in religion is he that he's not even into it enough to call himself an atheist - at least not an informed one). Anyway, he and his wife got hell-bent on pre-enrolling their kids at a highly regarded Catholic school (given that they're both "Catholics" you see...). Trouble was, the religious who run the school wanted to see evidence of commitment to the faith... Tough call for him and his wife... They ended up having to take lessons at night to "brush up" on their Catholicism as they were informed that his kids would be expected to make the sacraments of first confession, holy communion and later their confirmation along with expected attendance at Mass on Sundays and Holy days of Obligation - They, as parents, were not only required to consent to this indoctrination, but were to assist... Did they consent? You bet!  ... Bit of laugh really, listening to him regaling us with his faltering rendition of Catholic Catechism... His hypocrisy knew no bounds when it came to what he imagined he needed to do to climb the social ladder

muso wrote on Dec 29^th, 2009 at 9:03am:

Par for the Catholic course, I thought.

freediver wrote on Dec 29^th, 2009 at 9:36am:

Religious education in the Catholic schools I attended or have ever known of, was an integral part of their curricula.

It all got a bit comedic in our senior years when the priests decided they needed to give us lads a bit of latitude during Catechism and started allowing open debate about the doctrine

Of course one smartarse was into existentialism, wasn't he... having just tried to plough his way through "Being and Nothingness" and bullshitting us all that he was "up with it"

Our "open debate" all came to a tragi-comic end when he tried to argue that we were all free (monstrously free, as Sartre would have us believe) in the absolute to do whatever we wished right or wrong... That was too much for Father O'Neil who banged his fist on his desk insisting that we were most definitely not free and that was all there was to it. After more prodding by the smartarse, he stood up red-faced with fury, dismissed the class and walked out

After that, no more free-thinking for the lads was to be had in Catechism Instruction

There should be separation of religion from education !

Could not agree more, but in a meantime new schools are built and separation of some parts of our community will be even easier.

Quote:


I'm curious about what you mean with this. Are you arguing that it is not a denial of freedom of religion, or are you indicating support for broader measures to deny freedom of religion?

I think this argument needs a bit of eprspective about the role of education in society. The role of education is to indoctrinate children into the dominant paradigm. It is not to change the dominant paradigm. Thus, if there is no universally agreed view on religion, or how it should be taught, the government has no role in deciding which version is taught. To do so would undermine freedom of thought. So, if you think religion should be taught from a Christian perspective, teach your children from a Christian persopective, or have them taught that way. If you think they should be taught from a universalist perspective, have them taught that way. If you think it should be left out of education entirely, leave it out. There is enough choice for you to do so, if you care that much about it.

It is sickening to see people who get frustrated with their failure to convince other people to share their world view, try to get the government to impose it instead on their children against their will. If you really are right, you should be able to convince the parents, then let them do the right them by their own children. Trying to bypass the logical step of arguing it out against adults on an even footing is nothing more than an attempt to unlevel the playing field to give your view an unfair advantage, because it cannot win on it's own merits.

On the other hand, if you think that the parents are deluded by their indoctrination and are passing on that delusion, and you need to intervene to break the cycle, then you are a pompous, arrogant and power-mad and do not understand what you are talking about. You cannot get anywhere by pretending that you are the only one who is capable of thinking for themselves and that other people need to lose control of their own children so that they can be protected from the dangerous thoughts of their parents. Man up and take on an adult, rather than stealing children to have your way with them.