Yadda wrote on Dec 31^st, 2009 at 8:56am:




If yes, then why not open all of the jails!

Bad analogy.




Better analogy.

Why not tear down the fences in crocodile farms, so that we can all be friendly to the crocodiles, and demonstrate how tolerant of them, that we are???   

Its the same logic, in approaching ISLAM, in being 'tolerant' of ISLAM, imo.






TRUTH

how to 'interface' with 'unbelievers',

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."

Koran 9.123

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him;...."

Koran 3.85

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Just like putting Jews on a train is way short of exterminating them. It is merely the first step. Either way, it is still a denial of freedom. Given that all the arguments in favour boil down to 'religion is evil', I find it hard to believe any of you would stop if given any real power.

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But they aren't free to practice it how they want to practice it. They are only free to practice it how you allow them to. That is not freedom.

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Other people maintain that it is a good thing. While others maintain that it is a bad thing to allow children to attend secular schools because it creates division. Fortunately we live in a free society where we can choose for ourselves how to bring up our children, regardless of what interfering busy-bodies think of our choices. Unless you can demonstrate actual harm to the children, you have no grounds for stealing them from their parents.

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There are many reasons why religions prosper. That is a long way down the list. You are misrepresenting religion in order to justify denial of religious freedom.

BTW, there are plenty of organisations and institutions in our society who separate people to an equal extent, such as clubs, fraternities, cliques and political parties. Do you want to ban them as well, or are you just clutching at straws for a reason to deny people freedom of religion?

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The reasoning is different. Parents also have the right to segregate their children based on socio-economic status.

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Not quite Yadda. Do you realise that by being intolerant towards Islam and encouraging legal and political intolerance, you are actually validating the legal intolerance of Sharia law?

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Yadda, freedom of religion is hardly a murderous philosophy.

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Quote us. Don't put words into our mouths.

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No Yadda, laws alone do not hold our society together.

Yadda wrote on Dec 31^st, 2009 at 10:02am:

Firstly Yadda, You'll have to learn to control your inclination towards wild presumptions... Just as you need to learn to trust your readers, you'll also need to learn to intuit a writer's likely intent... Both skills you lack... That's what can happen when you listen to voices in your head which you immediately ascribe to god or divine harbingers... See, you're not really that far from 'the prophet' but more likely closer to the archetypal American evangelist nutjob. Either way, you're no more capable than they of being certain what you're hearing, because as you never tire of reminding us all, you're only imperfect and weak flesh and blood... Even if one accepts that god (and the devil) exist, you can't know which one is speaking to you... And you can't know its either of them as opposed to a normal mental process which has a psychological cause.. Though I'd suggest its the latter.

abu_rashid wrote on Dec 30^th, 2009 at 9:05pm:

He flouted rules, Yadda... That makes him a hypocrite... Not a threat to the state.

Yadda, your personality type is the disease that has afflicted Germans in the past to their nations eternal disgrace.

You're a risk to our society... You're the type who'd see the 'divine wisdom' - revealed by voices in your head - in burning it down 'in order to save it'.

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Fine by me. They are only free to practice their religion to the extent that it does not deny others their freedom. They are also free to whinge and moan about it to their heart's content.

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Or, we could discuss what freedom of religion actually means, rather than simply repeating our opening statements.

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Someone who would use the law to arbitrarily deny others freedom.

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Right Jordan. We both agree that their needs to be limits. No need to repeat that. Remember, what we disagree on is where to draw the line. I think it should be where the actions of an individual limits the freedom of others. You think it needs to be where people exercise their freedom to be different to you. You think they should only be granted freedom while they conform.

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Granting people the right to exercise their freedom cannot be based on whether you deem it necessary for them to exercise their freedom in that aprticular way. That is not freedom.

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You are pretty naive if you believe otherwise. Do you honestly think you can simply ban religious schools and everyone will simply go along with your scheme without any resistance? What do you think actually happens when the government starts dictating how parents are to raise their children? Everybody holds hands and sings kumbayah?

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All you need to do is tick the right box and anything can happen. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. You can't voice your support for a ban on religious schools then pretend you are surprised when people point out what a bad idea it is.

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I did not say you had already done so. If you don't want to be accused of trying to steal other people's children away from them, stop suggesting that you would like the government to take away their right to raise their children as they see fit. There is a genuine danger to society when people start talking 'hypothetically' about destroying freedom, but saying they would not do anything about it themselves, because soon enough someone will do it for them. Then it will be too late for you to realise the error of your ways.