Australian Politics Forum - 'Beheading' poet wins conviction appeal

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48814 At my desk.	Re: 'Beheading' poet wins conviction appeal Reply #15 - Jun 22^nd, 2008 at 4:16pm I think of terrorism as an act of war without a mandate or a nation's leadership behind it. It is war by individuals, rather than nations.
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Malik Shakur

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Re: 'Beheading' poet wins conviction appeal
Reply #16 - Jun 22^nd, 2008 at 4:48pm

freediver wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2008 at 4:16pm:

I think of terrorism as an act of war without a mandate or a nation's leadership behind it. It is war by individuals, rather than nations.

Wow.. That would make America's founding fathers and those who resisted oppression at the Eureka Stockade all terrorists and make any group of people who resist a tyrannical government terrorists too..

Thats a very scary thought indeed Freediver

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Malik Shakur Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 799 Auckland, New Zealand Gender:	Re: 'Beheading' poet wins conviction appeal Reply #17 - Jun 22^nd, 2008 at 5:07pm I do however believe that you are quite right in the actual definition of the word though Freediver, in fact.. Terrorism used to be considered a legitimate way of fighting by people resisting tyranny. But now it's become something that is abhorrent. So do we change the word or the definition?
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Sprintcyclist

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Re: 'Beheading' poet wins conviction appeal
Reply #18 - Jun 22^nd, 2008 at 7:05pm

"Malik.Shakur, Posted on: Yesterday at 1:44pm

they were charged with weapons offenses only, that makes me wonder if a Muslim was caught with such explosives whether they would be charged with terrorism offenses?

[/size]I guess we need to define, what is terrorism?[size=14]

"

fire away malik, figuratively speaking.

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Malik Shakur

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Re: 'Beheading' poet wins conviction appeal
Reply #19 - Jun 22^nd, 2008 at 8:20pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2008 at 7:05pm:

"Malik.Shakur, Posted on: Yesterday at 1:44pm

they were charged with weapons offenses only, that makes me wonder if a Muslim was caught with such explosives whether they would be charged with terrorism offenses?

[/size]I guess we need to define, what is terrorism?[size=14]

"

fire away malik, figuratively speaking.

Surely you have read what I said before regarding the definition? FD wrote on it too.

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freediver

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Re: 'Beheading' poet wins conviction appeal
Reply #20 - Jun 22^nd, 2008 at 9:42pm

I just made it up, but that is my understanding. The only distinction is the mandate. I see terrorism as no better or worse than conventional war. Though some wars are fought by noble men who target only the enemy soldiers and not innocent civilians. We even make rules about it, then ignore the rules as necessary. All's fair in love and war.

And yes, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Many of the South African freedom fighters were terrorists, though luckily they were kept in check by Mandela and other organisations, who had a view to a peaceful future.

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Malik Shakur

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Re: 'Beheading' poet wins conviction appeal
Reply #21 - Jun 22^nd, 2008 at 9:51pm

freediver wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2008 at 9:42pm:

I just made it up, but that is my understanding. The only distinction is the mandate. I see terrorism as no better or worse than conventional war. Though some wars are fought by noble men who target only the enemy soldiers and not innocent civilians. We even make rules about it, then ignore the rules as necessary. All's fair in love and war.

And yes, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Many of the South African freedom fighters were terrorists, though luckily they were kept in check by Mandela and other organisations, who had a view to a peaceful future.

But the fact is that even Al-Qaeda wants a peaceful future, their states aims are to rid the holy land of the oppressors and their puppet masters in the West.

But their methods are abhorrent.

Terrorism USED to be what you have stated, and it was a legitimate means of warfare. But now, they obscured it's meaning and put everyone in fear of terrorists.. They did the same with communists

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Acid Monkey

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Re: 'Beheading' poet wins conviction appeal
Reply #22 - Jun 22^nd, 2008 at 9:55pm

Malik Shakur wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2008 at 5:07pm:

I do however believe that you are quite right in the actual definition of the word though Freediver, in fact.. Terrorism used to be considered a legitimate way of fighting by people resisting tyranny.

But now it's become something that is abhorrent.

So do we change the word or the definition?

One nation's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.

Remember the Contras (US backed) guerilla army against the popular elected Sandinista govt. The Reagan govt went to great lengths to call this group "freedom fighters'. Also, currently the US backed uprising against Chavez's Venezuelan govt.

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freediver

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Re: 'Beheading' poet wins conviction appeal
Reply #23 - Jun 22^nd, 2008 at 10:23pm

Terrorism USED to be what you have stated, and it was a legitimate means of warfare. But now, they obscured it's meaning and put everyone in fear of terrorists.. They did the same with communists

Everything has changed. Consider war for example. It used to be a small group of whatever spare men a kingdom could spare - maybe a few thousand. They would dress in brightly coloured uniforms so the enemy would not mistake them for a friend, and just in case they would carry big flags so the enemy would know where to fire the cannons through all the smoke. They would line up in an open field in full view of each other, then charge or start shooting, or whatever they did.

Compare that to Vietnam, where everything is hidden and the peaceful village you just checked out may turn on you at any point. We have merely passed through a temporary phase of noble war and gone back to our roots, crawling through the mud and dark to hit our enemies in their sleep.

There is no such thing as legitimate or illegitimate war. Once someone decides they want to kill you, all bets are off. It won't make it hurt any less if they follow traditional protocol.

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Malik Shakur

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Re: 'Beheading' poet wins conviction appeal
Reply #24 - Jun 22^nd, 2008 at 10:27pm

freediver wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2008 at 10:23pm:

Terrorism USED to be what you have stated, and it was a legitimate means of warfare. But now, they obscured it's meaning and put everyone in fear of terrorists.. They did the same with communists

Everything has changed. Consider war for example. It used to be a small group of whatever spare men a kingdom could spare - maybe a few thousand. They would dress in brightly coloured uniforms so the enemy would not mistake them for a friend, and just in case they would carry big flags so the enemy would know where to fire the cannons through all the smoke. They would line up in an open field in full view of each other, then charge or start shooting, or whatever they did.

Compare that to Vietnam, where everything is hidden and the peaceful village you just checked out may turn on you at any point. We have merely passed through a temporary phase of noble war and gone back to our roots, crawling through the mud and dark to hit our enemies in their sleep.

There is no such thing as legitimate or illegitimate war. Once someone decides they want to kill you, all bets are off. It won't make it hurt any less if they follow traditional protocol.

Gone are the times when war could be fought honourably..

Well.. I guess it still can, just depends if your opponent is prepared to fight that way

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Acid Monkey

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Re: 'Beheading' poet wins conviction appeal
Reply #25 - Jun 22^nd, 2008 at 10:39pm

freediver wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2008 at 10:23pm:

Compare that to Vietnam, where everything is hidden and the peaceful village you just checked out may turn on you at any point.

Thereby giving the US forces the justification to torture, rape amd massacre village civilians (old men, women and children) in the search for perceived VCs (re: My Lai massacre). I've seen garphic photos of skewered dead infants lying next to their dead naked mothers and old men with their guts cut open; intestines on the floor next to their bodies. Angry

.

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40175 Gender:	Re: 'Beheading' poet wins conviction appeal Reply #26 - Jun 23^rd, 2008 at 12:58am I guess bad things happen in wars.
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Malik Shakur Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 799 Auckland, New Zealand Gender:	Re: 'Beheading' poet wins conviction appeal Reply #27 - Jun 23^rd, 2008 at 10:10pm Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2008 at 12:58am: I guess bad things happen in wars. Yeah.. I'm sure Al-Qaeda consider the 3000 innocent lives lost on 9/11 as collateral damage too.
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DILLIGAF

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Re: 'Beheading' poet wins conviction appeal
Reply #28 - Jun 23^rd, 2008 at 10:27pm

Malik Shakur wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2008 at 10:27pm:

Gone are the times when war could be fought honourably..

I agree with you, my foe. Thank the cowardly Jews for that.

Quote:

Well.. I guess it still can, just depends if your opponent is prepared to fight that way

A true white man would fight you with honour and dignity.
But we have been poisoned with zionist lies and propaganda for 60 years and we have lost our souls to the Devil Jew.

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DILLIGAF Gold Member Offline Posts: 1259 The greens are red Gender:	Re: 'Beheading' poet wins conviction appeal Reply #29 - Jun 23^rd, 2008 at 10:28pm freediver wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2008 at 4:16pm: I think of terrorism as an act of war without a mandate or a nation's leadership behind it. It is war by individuals, rather than nations. In real civilisation its called civil or guerilla war.
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