Malik Shakur wrote on Jun 28^th, 2008 at 12:19am:


It's interesting how some of these traditions can become part of a religion. I remember having a conversation with a very enlightened Muslim at an airport in Africa. He was having a beer with me. He told me (and I haven't been able to verify this) that alcohol is not actually prohibited in the Qur'an, although many Muslims I have met say that it is not Halal (حلال) He said something to the effect that you should not be so intoxicated as not to recognize your own mother.

I never checked that reference.


(excuse me for playing with Arabic characters)

Some of the 'basis' for legalising polygamy in Australia seems to stem from protection against 'corrupt western values'. ie. engaging in pre-marital sex, or affairs. Some of the argument for polygamy in Australia unfairly assumes that all men are adulterous. Is this presumption just convenient for men who are themselves trying to legalise the practice in accordance to their religion? If I was a western man I would be annoyed at the presumption I am going to cheat on my wife – not all men do; this is just a Muslim man’s (the Sheik’s) way of trying to justify his stupid behaviour.  

Also, this is a sexist practice, whereby Islamic polygamy promotes Polygyny (the practice of a man marrying more than one woman), but Polyandry (the practice of a woman marrying more than one man) is Haraam (forbidden). If one form of polygamy is forbidden, perhaps it is time to abolish the entire practice.

Must we allow Nikah mut‘ah (temporary marriage, often for sexual gratification) too?
Lastly, how do you call such a marriage a consensual marriage between two adults when it stems from a society that endorses arranged marriage?

MW wrote on Jun 28^th, 2008 at 5:39pm:

Islam doesn't permit polyandry, firstly it is not for the woman to go and provide for men, so if she married several men they would just be bringing money in for her.

Islam also doesn't allow forcible arranged marriages.

Furthermore, what is your problem with Nikah Mutah?

MW wrote on Jun 28^th, 2008 at 5:59pm:


I'll use the Yusuf Ali translation, I'll also post the previous two verses.
[b]
So you wont actually try and interpret it, but you will call it ridiculous?

Classy...

MW wrote on Jun 28^th, 2008 at 6:21pm:

Which tenet of the Qur'an is that?

Interpretation comes into reading comprehension in addition to understanding the context behind the verses.

You're a bit late for this topic, the evidence in this case leads to Aisha actually being between about 15-20 at the time of the consummation of her marriage to the prophet Muhammad pbuh.

Read this one here regarding it. http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1213756394/81#81

Furthermore, what we do know for a fact is that Aisha had already started menstruating at the time of her consummation to Muhammad pbuh.

Marriageable age starts from when menstruation begins. This was also acceptable to both Christian and Jewish law.

Milak...

WAS accepted in Christian and Jewish religion… was not meaning is…
I am not asking about other religions, I am asking about Islam.
Note the word CONSUMATION...
he married her when she was just 9 years old, and the article you claim is the be all and end all of this argument is just one of the possible scenario's in a debate that has no conclusion. 
However, documentation saying he married her at age 9 has been more consistent. Needless to say, if she had of said no to his advances (even at that age) he could divorce her. Saying he didn't consummate the marriage only suggests an attempt at excusing a man marrying a little girl. p.s. Having said that my question was about marrying her in the first place, not whether they copulated.  I asked about marriage, not consummation.
Quoting from one forum doesn't render your argument valid; there cannot be irrefutable conclusions as to someone’s age at the time they lost their virginity when it happened around 2000 years ago; even within the field of anthropology.

MW wrote on Jun 28^th, 2008 at 7:56pm:


Well even the age of marriage is not to be proven. There are hadith that claim she was married to him at 6 and consummated the marriage at 9, others state she was older. I don't trust those hadith because in my personal opinion and many others they were tampered with by the Umayyad's.

Judging by the evidence that's available from corresponding dates of the events that took place around them and the ages of other people, it leads me to believe the consummation didn't take place until the ages of 15-20, I would not be surprised if she had been engaged to him earlier, but she didn't move into his house until then. Thus their marriage hadn't really taken place until that age. What tends to happen at the 'engagement' is they sign the wedding papers. That is not uncommon at all, but the wedding doesn't take place for some time, depending on their preferences. Certainly not before the girl has started menstruating. That ceremony is called Katib Kitab.

It's not uncommon today for people in Yemen to get married as early as 10-12 years old. But that doesn't mean they have sex with their wives or husbands, it just means that is the time when they really get to know each other, it's sort of an apprenticeship that they go through to know how to act in marriage. This has been documented by many anthropologists, see Yemen Chronicle: Anthropology of War and Mediation by Steven C. Caton, it mentions it in there.

So it all goes by what you consider the beginning of marriage to be? I'd suggest not to go by what the Western standards are because they weren't from the West.