Aussie wrote on Jun 29^th, 2008 at 10:24pm:

I'm not an idiot at all. It's funny because I've proven evidence from both universities websites and the ABC website. What more do you need mate? lol

It's clear that what I've said is the truth, you're just having a hard time accepting it right now because it makes you look so stupid.

Should it be up to females to cover up; or is it up to males to mind their own business and realize it has nothing to do with them regardless of what a woman chooses to wear.

Not to mention that 'swim suit' isn't particularly practical, especially in Aussie surf.

By the same principles, why don't men cover up to if it is required by women?

Saying a woman should cover up because men will look at her anyway is like saying it's a childs fault if a paedophile views them as a sexual object; it is up to the offender to change, not the victim.

That is the choice of men... women in Australia don't have to pander to that. Come on mate, any Aussie knows that! That's why we have laws to protect individual rights!

I left this forum as I realised Malik; you are one of the pigs in the trough with the clarity of associated mud.

Then I heard the most atrocious post that crosses the line into criminal territory. Malik you are saying that it is a females fault for being raped!!!!!!!!!!!!! That males are incapable of  any self control.... speak for yourself. Is this just your thoughts on males or is it inherent in Islam as it appears to be.

Would it not be more just to punish the perpetrators of the crime, YOU and males like you that can not make any distinction between a en equal member of society and wanting to rape that person.

With each of your posts Malik you remind Australian that it is you that we have to prevent from decaying our moral fabric; to protect our daughters from your lecherous stare.


This again shows why Islam is completely and irrevocably incompatible with Australian values and infact basic human rights.

D,

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Come on, the Australian "moral fabric" is a pretty tattered old rag. There is very little moral fabric left in Australian society, and what's left is fast decaying from it's own downward slide, nothing to do with Islam. In fact Islam is one of the few positive moral contributors to Australian society, that's why so many of us are rejecting the so called "Australian values" and embracing Islam (or in some cases other religions, but more often than not, Islam). The emerging Australian values are just a mirror of the cheap and empty American values of consumerism, individualism and disrespect for anything sacred whatsoever.

A country that hosts the Mardi Gras, that legalises prostitution and pornography and is one of the bggiest perpetrators of sex tourism can hardly take the high moral ground and claim to be having its "moral fabric" eroded by what most would call a very conservative and modest religion as Islam. This is just ridiculous and wreaks of xenophobia, what you really mean to say is that foriegners, specifically those from middle eastern origin are eroding this country's "whiteness", and that's what you're afraid of. Yes there are hooligan youth from middle eastern background, as there are from asian and anglo backgrounds too, but they most certainly do not represent Islam, in fact Islam demands capital punishment for the abhorrent crime of rape, and most certainly does not allow the victim to be further victimised.

Just like we've seen you attempt to sensationalise the issue by stuffing words into Malik Shakur's mouth which he clearly did not say, so too the media has attempted the same pathetic little charade with some of the Muslim representatives, knowing full well they don't have a good enough grasp of the English language to be able to aptly respond. Your approach, like theirs is nothing short of deceptive, and is really quite a cheap shot. You should be ashamed of yourself, for attempting such a pathetic ploy.

abu_rashid wrote on Jun 30^th, 2008 at 2:38am:


If this is how you feel about Australia, then book a plane ticket out. Simple. 
Just like Malik, you assume people's meaning instead of reading their words and then throw around stupid personal attacks.
Xenophobia is a fear of foreign people, D has never mentioned other people/races etc. except to question the qu'ran.
Australia has many diverse cultures that add to the landscape and shape a wonderful country...
the practice of polygamy will NOT do that.
Islam as it stands does not do that.

As for your statement about capital punishment, you can not claim rapists are punished under islamic law when a woman's testimony is worth only half of a mans (many men get away with it for this reason) and the definition of rape is not even classified as valid under certain circumstances (ie marital).
furthermore, I am not convinced of an upholding of the law when the shiek said himself that despite the law of Australia, people  practice polygamy anyway.

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You can read into it what you like, the simple fact is he didn't say it, nor did he even hint about it. You invented it and then accused him of making the claim. This demonstrates to me that you're well aware you have nothing worth debating, so you're just trying to ride the wave of sensationalism. Please don't embaress yourself further with such nonsense.

If you wanna debate, present a decent case with facts, nothing more, nothing less.

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Umm, no actually he stated males in general are driven by lusts. I can only assume you're not a male, or that you have some medical condition that prevents you from knowing this is the cold hard truth. As he quite rightly pointed out, that's why we've got billboards and television commericals everywhere with half naked women on them selling everything from chocolate bars to power tools. If you are indeed an Aussie [male], then you'd know quite well that it's a rather common theme in Australian society that men thinking with two heads, and one of them has more control most of the time than the other. Actually I just watched a Seinfled episode the other day that portrays this in an imaginary game of chess, in which Jerry's 'upper brain' struggles to control his 'lower brain' for control of his body  in the presence of a certain female character that has a strong 'psycho-sexual' hold over him, as it's put. So this is not a uniquely Australian concept either. It's a well known 'cultural theme' all around the globe.

Either way, it's got nothing to do with rape, rape is a crime which Islam has absolutely no tolerance for, and has legislated should be punished with the most severe punishments. In Australian society, the punishment is generally nothing more than a few years in gaol, unless you're unlucky enough to be of middle eastern descent and get caught up in media sensationalism, in which case you could be looking at about ten times the average sentence... Justice indeed.

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Actually I don't believe I said "Islam was here before Christianity", I said Muslims came here before Europeans. Neither did I say you can't stop Islam from taking over. Please, as I requested of you before, stick to the actual dialog, enough of the fantasy debates.

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I'm really not sure what your line of reasoning is here, but I'll take a stab in the dark. You think I said Christianity has no right to be here, because Muslims came here first? or Aborigines were here first or something?

In fact I'm arguing the complete opposite, I'm stating that just because European civilisation established itself here as the predominant culture, doesn't in any way preclude other cultures from also influencing, contributing to, and also learning from Australian culture. Do you disagree, like some of the other racist comments we've seen here, that call for a mono-culture that is to be safeguarded from any influences perceived to be foriegn?

Do you believe Muslims here (not all of us are new arrivals, some of us have been here for many generations, as long, if not longer than non-Muslims) have no right to contribute to Australian society and should either practise their  Islam secretly and openly act like 'bloody yobbos' or get the hell out?

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Well it exists in Australian society, whether you like it or not. Just out of curiousity, what do you dislike about it? If all participants are consenting adults, who agree to enter into the arrangement, what business is it of yours? Why do you really object to it?

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If I feel my country is going downhill, I don't book a plane ticket out, I strive to revitalise it and correct it's immoral practises. Likewise if any other Australian sees something they dislike about Australian society/system they are free to work and lobby to alter it. And if you don't like my contribution, you are free to lobby or work against it. That's how Australian society works, not "Book a plane ticket and get the hell out". That's just xenophobic nonsense. Such a sentiment  is just something you've parroted from the Yanks, and isn't really consistent with the Australian ideals of a fair go and egalitarianism.

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This is just nonssense, the marriage was arranged at this age, but consummation did not occur until the age of puberty, which is the lega age of consent in Islam. The society of the time did not find anything untoward about this union and although many other slanders were levelled against Muhammad (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) paedophilia was not one of them. Until today, when social conditions have changed, and marriage is not permitted until about 4-5 years after puberty begins. Instead youth are encouraged to engage in premarital sexual relations and 'experimentation' that end up leading to all sorts of messed up relationshi