Australian Politics Forum - More islamic groups forcing their wants

mozzaok Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 6741 Melbourne Gender:	Re: More islamic groups forcing their wants Reply #15 - Jul 8^th, 2008 at 8:30am I could not help but notice the above report emanates from a "Think Tank", here is a funny video of Bill Maher's view on think tanks. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcJohfS4vTQ
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Malik Shakur

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Re: More islamic groups forcing their wants
Reply #16 - Jul 8^th, 2008 at 9:13am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 8^th, 2008 at 2:10am:

So who is right ?
The ahmadiyyas, the saudis or you ?
Or just whoever kills the others first?

Seems to be the idea behind that quote i gave about one brother being happy to kill the other.

Who was right when the catholics and protestants were massacring each other? When whole populations were murdered.

The Ahmadiyyas are completely wrong because they believe in another prophet. It clearly takes them out of the fold of Islam and the saudis are extreme based on cultural and tribal practices, the very thing that the prophet pbuh came to get rid of.

in addition to that, sprint you are in no place to talk.. according to your own book the God of the OT who is your saviour, Jesus pbuh ordered for the little children of samaria to be cut in pieces and the pregnant women to have their wombs ripped out and brutally murdered along with their unborn babies.. those are Godly actions according to your own book.. now i see the justifications from the side of the catholics and protestants when they started trying to wipe each other off the face of the planet.

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mozzaok Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 6741 Melbourne Gender:	Re: More islamic groups forcing their wants Reply #17 - Jul 8^th, 2008 at 9:31am You have convinced me Malik, believing in the Bible is crazy. You also have convinced me Sprint, believing in the Koran is crazy. If both of you were as reasonable as me we could all shake hands and laugh about it. I used to believe, WHAT?? I must've been pissed.
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freediver

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Re: More islamic groups forcing their wants
Reply #18 - Jul 8^th, 2008 at 11:25am

We will disagree as long as you can't accept the simple fact that Muslims should be able to run their own countries the way they like.

Does that include outlawing sects that teach things you don't like? You think they should do that?

What if a person called themselves a Christian and said that they believe Muhammad was the last prophet and that Jesus pbuh wasn't the massiah, the son of God nor God? Would they be a Christian?

They wouldn't be banned. There's a difference between refusing to call someone a Christian or a Muslim, and putting them in jail for blasphemy.

in islam we don't accept people trying to pervert the faith by introducing extra prophets into it thus we don't consider them muslim in the first place, and if they call themselves muslim and their religion islam then we will take action against them.. terrorists and those who pervert the faith with such blasphemy are both guilty of serious crimes..

What is the penalty under Islam? Should they be stoned to death?

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: More islamic groups forcing their wants
Reply #19 - Jul 8^th, 2008 at 11:42am

malik - I have no idea why you keep on banging on about that.
Thought muslims thought the bible was incorrect anyway ?
Thought muslims think allah was God.
thought you would know the OT is for jews, the NT for xians ??

the catholics and prodestants ended their issues long ago, about when many of them could read.
Not the case with muslims. Any suicide bombs last night in the name of allah ??

mozzaok - you write great posts. Congrats.

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Acid Monkey

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Re: More islamic groups forcing their wants
Reply #20 - Jul 8^th, 2008 at 3:09pm

Malik Shakur wrote on Jul 8^th, 2008 at 1:56am:

the ahmadiyyas try to change islam and pevert the faith with having extra prophets and other things.. the catholic church has always killed false prophets in history, in fact the romans killed the muslim messengers when we sent them word that Muhamamd pbuh was the messenger of God.. in islam we don't accept people trying to pervert the faith by introducing extra prophets into it thus we don't consider them muslim in the first place, and if they call themselves muslim and their religion islam then we will take action against them.. terrorists and those who pervert the faith with such blasphemy are both guilty of serious crimes..

While I may agree with many of your assertions with regards to Islam, Muslims and trans-faith hypocrisies I'll have to disagree with the direction your assertion is heading with this.

In a live and let live attitude, tolerance and/or acceptance works both ways. While Christians believe that the last prophet was Jesus and don't accept Mohammad they should accept the Islamic faith and allow its practice without Western interference. This I believe is what you and Abu have been arguing for. Freedom of religion within Australia and freedom from state interference for Islamic nations. I certainly agree with that right. However, it works both ways. Muslims may not accept the teachings of Ahmmadiya but they should accept their right to practice it. They too have a freedom to practice as they see fit without interference.

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Acid Monkey Gold Member Offline Goth Father Posts: 1064 EU Gender:	Re: More islamic groups forcing their wants Reply #21 - Jul 8^th, 2008 at 3:16pm Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 8^th, 2008 at 1:48am: "probably not", that is my answer. You can work it out. Sprint, you are constantly harping Malik to give you definite yes or no answers. And yet when he asks the same you refuse - not very benevolent of you.
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Acid Monkey

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Re: More islamic groups forcing their wants
Reply #22 - Jul 8^th, 2008 at 3:27pm

The Branch Dividian was a minority Christian group whose leader claims to be Christ re-intergrated into this material world. However ludirous this sect was, it was not banned because of the freedom to worhip. They were investigated only after it was alledged to sex with minors and other felony charges.

Koresh: "What is Christ revealed as, according to the fourth seal?"
FBI: "Pale... a rider on a pale horse."
Koresh: "And his name is what?"
FBI: "Death."
Koresh: "Now, do you know what the name Koresh means?"
FBI: "Go ahead..."
Koresh: "It means death."

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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: More islamic groups forcing their wants Reply #23 - Jul 8^th, 2008 at 7:28pm Quote: he catholics and prodestants ended their issues long ago Ahh, so those guys calling themselves Catholics and Pro t estants in Northern Ireland, who have been going around bombing the hell out of eachother for the last few decades aren't really Catholics and Protestants?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48816 At my desk.	Re: More islamic groups forcing their wants Reply #24 - Jul 8^th, 2008 at 7:46pm They are British and Irish.
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Malik Shakur Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 799 Auckland, New Zealand Gender:	Re: More islamic groups forcing their wants Reply #25 - Jul 8^th, 2008 at 7:54pm freediver wrote on Jul 8^th, 2008 at 7:46pm: They are British and Irish. That's not true at all, the UDF are Irish Protestants and the IRA etc are Irish Catholics and they fought each other.
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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: More islamic groups forcing their wants Reply #26 - Jul 8^th, 2008 at 8:22pm They're all Irish, it's just that the Protestants are loyal to Britain and want British rule over Northern Ireland.
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mozzaok

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Re: More islamic groups forcing their wants
Reply #27 - Jul 8^th, 2008 at 8:31pm

Ireland.
It was never a religious struggle Abu.
It was primarily a class struggle, based in an independence movement.

Yes they have moved on, and put the violence behind them, ironically by the dual forces of an economic upturn, and the last great act of barbarity shaking them to their senses.

The violence can only flourish with the acquiescence of the community, when that was lost, the violence had to stop.

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Malik Shakur

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Re: More islamic groups forcing their wants
Reply #28 - Jul 8^th, 2008 at 9:22pm

mozzaok wrote on Jul 8^th, 2008 at 8:31pm:

Ireland.
It was never a religious struggle Abu.
It was primarily a class struggle, based in an independence movement.

Yes they have moved on, and put the violence behind them, ironically by the dual forces of an economic upturn, and the last great act of barbarity shaking them to their senses.

The violence can only flourish with the acquiescence of the community, when that was lost, the violence had to stop.

Thats not true the Real IRA are still resisting and haven't given their weapons up.

So what defines a class struggle and religious struggle? In Islam we are obligated to defend our lands. That means that if Australia was attacked and occupied by an oppressor I'd fight the oppressor because not only is it my civic duty, but I'd do it for the sake of God and it'd be considered a Jihad and my obligation to defend this land against tyranny.

By those standards, while the Iraqi's and Afghanis are fighting to free their land from occupiers, it's still their obligation to God to do so.. Thus a war of liberation.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48816 At my desk.	Re: More islamic groups forcing their wants Reply #29 - Jul 8^th, 2008 at 9:36pm Who are the Iraqis fighting to liberate their land from?
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