Thanks Acid.

I am hoping to write a small post with some guidelines about etiquette when posting here.

I don't want to stifle any kind of free debate and even criticism/challenge of Islam as an ideology and it's history but basically just want to ensure that it remains nice and friendly, and is based on a sincere and mature desire to expose the reality.

mozzaok wrote on Aug 1^st, 2008 at 8:35pm:

What is progressive Islam Mozza, please inform us.

jordan484 wrote on Aug 1^st, 2008 at 8:53pm:

Why, are you incapable of having fruitful dialogue where you can disagree with others in a way which is not insulting or disrespectful to their beliefs?

Because that's just proper manners and courtesy that one should have for their fellow man even when not talking about religion.

And don't give me that crap about manners. You posted a photo of a fire and told me to enjoy hell. You're a hypocrite.

Well, that's my point. So what if I was. Pork is not offensive to me, just because it is for you, or abu, doesn't mean I can't say that I like it without being told I'm lying about liking the taste of "filthy swine". It's always all about what you may find offensive, there is no give and take, it's all take, take, take.

I respect your right to believe what you believe. But that's as far as it goes. I don't believe what you do, and I don't respect what you believe either. I'm not going to pretend that I do.

As I stated, there can be no true dialogue because it's stifled under the guise of disrespect.

Point proven.

Ad hominem already?

Classy chap.

mozza,

Quote:


Feel free to start a thread detailing for us what you think this new "progressive Islam" to be. Sorry I've just never heard of it before.

Just a point though that I might add. Islam is what Islam is. If someone takes Islam and tries to make it like something else, to conform it to someone elses beliefs (ie. to make it palatable for the West) is it really Islam anymore? It's like someone coming along and saying "Let's create a progressive communism" and then they do away with the communes and the state ownership and the planned economy any so forth and then say "Well here's our new progressive communism". It's no longer communism.

I think you just need to come to the realisation that Islam is a constant. Sure it has room to deal with new issues arising, but it will only ever be based on the original teachings. There's absolutely no room for cancelling the original teachings and inventing new ones. In this way Islam is very different from Christianity, and even to some extent Judaism, the strength of Islam is in it's consistency and in it's staunch adherence to sound principles. These are the things you're suggesting we strip from it, and I'm sad to break it to you, but it ain't gonna happen.

jordan,

Quote:


How is posting a cartoon part of any dialogue? You know full well you just want to do it to be mischievous, and to prove "see nobody's going to tell me what I can and can't do", you're like a rebellious little teenager, please grow up a little. this just indicates you're not sincerely interested in fruitful and mature dialogue, you just want to misbehave like a naughty little child, testing the limits.

Instead of harking on about how you might get banned, you should seriously look at the pathetically childish image you're portraying to others.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 1^st, 2008 at 10:13pm:

You came in with all guns blazing telling me I'm a liar and I don't really like this or that and so on....so I don't think I'll be taking any advice from you about how childish you think I'm being. I haven't seen too much in the way of mature dialogue from you. You make far too many assumptions and I don't respect how you present yourself.

See, that's the thing. You try really hard to take the moral high ground, be the good debater, the polite poster.....and then have to get a little dig in all the same, about my life, my person....some little comment to try and make me feel bad about who I am. You almost have people fooled into believing you're a kind, gentle, diplomatic poster.....but you just can't quite keep it together enough....the real you comes out in the end.

Even Sprintcyclist is welcome to come into this forum and post if he's willing to do it without insulting and inciting hatred.

His slate can be clean and we can start over. I'm sure that he'd make some very good points and debate well.

Oh yeah, I don't want to be sued, either.

Pathetic.

How nice for you, the christians and the jews.

You say you require respect. I haven't seen you or abu respect me since I've been here. But please do continue living in your fantasy land of your perfection and everyone elses rudeness.

Yet another example of free speech being stifled by religion.

Enjoy your little love-in.

Malik Shakur wrote on Aug 1^st, 2008 at 10:55pm:


I think it is. That's my right to have that opinion. You call it disrespect. I call it the truth.

To you, it's insulting. We are not all you. Get it?

Quote:


Actually I don't remember calling you a liar.

I just pointed out you were 'laying it on a bit thick', with the whole swine and grog bit.

I think it was quite obvious that what I said was in jest, as I assumed you were doing as well. I've never seen anyone seriously enter a thread and out of the blue proclaim they love swine and grog..

Malik Shakur wrote on Aug 1^st, 2008 at 11:20pm:

Yes. Don't you get it that I don't care? It's my right to have my opinion on it. You have no jurisdiction over what I can and can't believe or what I can and can't think about Islam.

Off-Topic replies have been moved to this Topic.

Debate is one thing but if your just going to toe the Islamic party line, there is not much use in having a debate, all religions and cultures have had their bad times but most have moved on, lets hope others can too.

You're not able to get through one post without resorting to questioning my person, my upbringing or my "life skills". You are not understanding what I'm saying, clearly. By simply having different opinions on Islam THAT may be "insulting" or "disrespectful" or even at a stretch "inciting hatred". The judgment is yours, and that's where it becomes a lack of freedom because I don't find the same things insulting, why is "your" truth "your" belief any more important than mine. That's rhetorical. It isn't. I don't wish any harm upon you, or any muslim, or any person, but if my opinions insult you then that's something you're going to have to deal with. Your carry on about my person in every post you make may be construed by me as insulting, but you know what, I'm going to suck it up and allow you the right to say it. Why? Because you have the freedom to do so. Welcome to the civilised world, my friend.

easel wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2008 at 2:14pm:

Hahaha!

....and is a Muslim.....their opinions are more correct.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2008 at 5:58pm:

Of course you are, but remember that your perspective is just one among many, your view is biased and thus you may not be well respected in your opinions because of this.

Anyone who sees the world through only one philosophy, mindset, political or religious ideal should be criticised just as much as a muslim who will only see the world through the eyes of Islam. And if any of those groups you mentioned were preventing people from free speech the way malik is trying to, the way Islam is trying to, then we have a problem.

People who, like yourself, can't see the forest for the trees deserve to have their opinions taken with a grain of salt.

Likewise.

Hypocrite.

Since we are Muslims, wouldn't it go without saying that we're going to debate from a Muslim perspective? Are you expecting us to debate from a non-Muslim perspective or something?

I often find it very useful to construct your argument from your opponents perspective. It's the greatest test of whether you understand your opponents argument. It also makes your response far more powerful, because your opponent does not have to first accept an alternative perspective in oder to accept your argument.

But why is it you seem to think Muslims have any less right to be respect

I don't think he considers anyone to have that right.