Quote:Not when the same people said they should not have even been published
Yes, even when those people say they should not have been published, but still acknowledge their right to do so. You even admitted this, but you got all confused because you put their opposition to it being published in front of them acknowledging the right to publish. In my opinion that is the strongest possible acknowledgement of the primacy of the right to free speech - when it is tested with something you think should not have been published and would choose not to publish yourself. You describe it as 'begrudging' acceptance of free speech as if this somehow downplays their support for freedom of speech. It does the opposite. Not understanding what freedom of speech really means, you get it backwards.
Quote:I have painted you a picture of mainstream non-muslim society - based on actual facts.
Sure, you start with facts, then put it through your Islamic filter of complete miscomprehension of freedom of speech.
Quote:Whether you agree with that assemssment or not, you haven't been able to demonstrate any real distinctions between this society and mainstream muslim society because there are no known facts about mainstream Australian muslim society - at least none that have been presented here.
Crap. You desperately ignore the evidence I post over and over again. I have presented a long list of evidence. Your own evidence even backs up my case, like when you presented Muslim leader failing to mention freedom of speech as an example of a Muslim leader speaking out in support of freedom of speech, or when you cited people accepting the primacy of freedom of speech in the context of something they find personally distasteful as evidence that they somehow devalue freedom of speech. The evidence is not lacking, only your comprehension.
Quote:And yet here you are making these breathtaking statements like mainstream muslims are "chipping away at our freedoms at every opportunity" based on nothing at all - and thinking you can justify it by your "name one muslim..." schtick. Oh the arrogance.
Even Annie acknowledged I was right on this point, and that it is a genuine problem. You are in a desperate state of denial Gandalf.
Quote:A survey saying a massive majority of Australians want the government to place religion beyond criticism or mockery does... well... mean they support the government trying to place religion beyond criticism or mockery.
Except it doesn't. You even acknowledged this about the survey when you first put it up.
Quote:No I didn't, and its irrelevant.
Yes you did, several times, and it is what this thread is about.
Quote:Hows this for a starting point: prove your own bloody claims.
These are my claims - some Muslims oppose the right to depict and mock Muhammed with violence and threats of violence. Some oppose it through legal channels. Some are silent. Some, like you, pretend to support freedom of speech, but qualify it heavily, then run away when pressed on the issue. Which of these claims would you like me to prove?
Quote:Show me a survey of mainstream muslim attitudes that sets them apart from mainstream non-muslim attitudes.
You are the one claiming the have a survey to back up your claims, not me. You have not presented it. By your own admission, it demonstrates the opposite of what you claim.
Quote:As opposed to the screaming howls of protest by non-muslims in the face of effetive attacks on our freedom?
Many of the protests were published right here on this forum Gandalf.
Quote:if all else fails you can always throw in Barak Obama's irrelevant comments
They are relevant, because they directly contradict some of your claims about the western response to attacks by Muslims on our freedom of speech.
Quote:or what Gandalf didn't say, or your good ol' trusty "name one muslim..." routine.
The fact that you cannot present even one Muslim who fits into the mainstream on this issue, or one single non-Muslim who sides with the Muslims, is entirely relevant.
Quote:Give me one piece of evidence that indicates my position is in any meaningful way out of step with mainstream Australian opinion.
Sure, your inability to comprehend your own evidence, for example:
Quote:A survey saying a massive majority of Australians want the government to place religion beyond criticism or mockery does... well... mean they support the government trying to place religion beyond criticism or mockery.
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Is Islam against free speech? (Read 167197 times)
