Australian Politics Forum - Is Islam against free speech?

Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96294 Gender:	Re: Is Islam against free speech? Reply #390 - Nov 1^st, 2014 at 9:31pm But of course! You’re expected to rush to judgement on the basis of intolerance, etc. These are Moslems we’re talking about here. And as Y keeps telling us: Moslem = a follower of Islam Sinister, no?
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Soren

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #391 - Nov 1^st, 2014 at 9:37pm

Karnal wrote on Nov 1^st, 2014 at 2:30pm:

But of course people have the liberty in Australia to criticize and mock belief systems. The question here is not a legal one, but an ethical one: should people criticize and mock belief systems they know nothing about?

And who will decide whether they know enough to criticise Islam?

Er... Islamists.

You are a dishonest and scheming Paki bvgger, PB. Islamists should decide who knows enough about to Islam to criticise Islam?

F**k Orf is probably the only proper freeborn response.

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Soren

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #392 - Nov 1^st, 2014 at 10:45pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 31^st, 2014 at 11:30pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 31^st, 2014 at 9:37pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 31^st, 2014 at 7:47pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 31^st, 2014 at 2:13pm:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/many-british-muslims-put-islam-first/

Anything which is more recent than 2006, Soren?

8 Years. What has changed in Islam in the last 8 years, thicky?

Much has changed for Muslims though, hasn't it, Soren?

As the survey is about the attitudes of Muslims not the attitudes of a religion, I'd have thought that something more recent might tell us about the attitudes of Muslims today. The survey taken in 2006 was a snapshot of attitudes in 2006, Soren, not 2014.

Do you really believe that Muslim attitudes are set in stone? Roll Eyes

Yes, I think their attitudes are set in the 7th century of Arabia, with Mohammed as their leading light.

Is that set in stone? I dunno. Backward? Absolutely.

You simply cannot keep Mohammed as an example to man AND reform Islam. You cannot have a modern Islam WITH Mohammed. But you cannot have Islam without Mohammed. This is the paradox that is killing Muslims and anyone who comes into contact with this paradox.

Reforming Islam requires the ditching of Mohammed. But that's not going to happen.

Islam is dying for Mohammed.i

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Karnal

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #393 - Nov 1^st, 2014 at 10:52pm

Soren wrote on Nov 1^st, 2014 at 9:37pm:

Karnal wrote on Nov 1^st, 2014 at 2:30pm:

But of course people have the liberty in Australia to criticize and mock belief systems. The question here is not a legal one, but an ethical one: should people criticize and mock belief systems they know nothing about?

And who will decide whether they know enough to criticise Islam?

Er... Islamists.

You are a dishonest and scheming Paki bvgger, PB. Islamists should decide who knows enough about to Islam to criticise Islam?

F**k Orf is probably the only proper freeborn response.

Now now, old boy. Fundamentalists are the last people I would hold up as experts.

Except for you and Y, of course. You two are the board’s respective experts in stool and blood.You studied at the prestigious University of Balogney. Y obtained his immense knowledge from a website. www.jihadwatch, I think.

No no, what I find fascinating is the idea the you, Y, Sprint, Moses, Herbie and, of course, our FD are experts on the religion and beliefs of Islam.

What this means, I think, is that we really have reached the end of the age of reason. We are, I feel, on the cusp of a new dark ages, a time where anyone can make anything up and propagate it as age-old truth.

You know, ignorance is strength, Freeedom is slavery. These are the unabashed slogans of this brave new world.

Always, absolutely, never ever. Do you know, old boy? I have never quoted your words out of context or misrepresented their meaning. The carpet bombing, the tinted races, the endless war. It’s all there for all to see.

Yes, old boy, you are the expert, and I wouldn’t have it any other way.

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« Last Edit: Nov 1^st, 2014 at 11:38pm by Karnal »

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Brian Ross

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #394 - Nov 2^nd, 2014 at 12:45am

Soren wrote on Nov 1^st, 2014 at 10:45pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 31^st, 2014 at 11:30pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 31^st, 2014 at 9:37pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 31^st, 2014 at 7:47pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 31^st, 2014 at 2:13pm:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/many-british-muslims-put-islam-first/

Anything which is more recent than 2006, Soren?

8 Years. What has changed in Islam in the last 8 years, thicky?

Much has changed for Muslims though, hasn't it, Soren?

As the survey is about the attitudes of Muslims not the attitudes of a religion, I'd have thought that something more recent might tell us about the attitudes of Muslims today. The survey taken in 2006 was a snapshot of attitudes in 2006, Soren, not 2014.

Do you really believe that Muslim attitudes are set in stone? Roll Eyes

Yes, I think their attitudes are set in the 7th century of Arabia, with Mohammed as their leading light.

Is that set in stone? I dunno. Backward? Absolutely.

You simply cannot keep Mohammed as an example to man AND reform Islam. You cannot have a modern Islam WITH Mohammed. But you cannot have Islam without Mohammed. This is the paradox that is killing Muslims and anyone who comes into contact with this paradox.

Reforming Islam requires the ditching of Mohammed. But that's not going to happen.

Islam is dying for Mohammed.

Increasingly it is very obvious you have never talked to a Muslim in your entire life, Soren, let alone a broad cross-section which would give you any idea at all about what their actual attitudes may well be. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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freediver

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #395 - Nov 2^nd, 2014 at 8:01am

Karnal wrote on Nov 1^st, 2014 at 8:21pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 1^st, 2014 at 5:52pm:

Personal abuse is against the rules Brian.

See Gandalf, even Brian cannot bring himself to publicly take the stance you attribute to a "vast majority" of Australians. Is any of this sinking in?

Oh, FD, you’re such a tease. G is talking about polling on changing the Racial Villification Act. I remember seeing the figures published in the Herald and reported on 7.30 - all in the 70% range. Morgan, Newspoll, Galaxy. The numbers were put to Liberal politicians on Q&A. They were not denied. The very reason the Libs reversed their position on changing the Act was because of internal Liberal polling on the issue.

A majority of Australians do not want the current villification laws changed to protect people like Andrew Bolt. This is common knowledge.

Why do you seek to deny this, FD? Does it threaten you in some way?

I am not denying it Karnal. I acknowledge that Gandalf is desperately trying to keep the discussion on points where he and other Muslims can be part of the majority, and I have acknowledged this before. But he did also claim that the vast majority of Australians want to ban criticism or mockery of religion. He still stands by this claim. And you can only cover your eyes and pretend not to see.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Karnal

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #396 - Nov 2^nd, 2014 at 11:23am

freediver wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2014 at 8:01am:

Karnal wrote on Nov 1^st, 2014 at 8:21pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 1^st, 2014 at 5:52pm:

Personal abuse is against the rules Brian.

See Gandalf, even Brian cannot bring himself to publicly take the stance you attribute to a "vast majority" of Australians. Is any of this sinking in?

Oh, FD, you’re such a tease. G is talking about polling on changing the Racial Villification Act. I remember seeing the figures published in the Herald and reported on 7.30 - all in the 70% range. Morgan, Newspoll, Galaxy. The numbers were put to Liberal politicians on Q&A. They were not denied. The very reason the Libs reversed their position on changing the Act was because of internal Liberal polling on the issue.

A majority of Australians do not want the current villification laws changed to protect people like Andrew Bolt. This is common knowledge.

Why do you seek to deny this, FD? Does it threaten you in some way?

I am not denying it Karnal. I acknowledge that Gandalf is desperately trying to keep the discussion on points where he and other Muslims can be part of the majority, and I have acknowledged this before. But he did also claim that the vast majority of Australians want to ban criticism or mockery of religion. He still stands by this claim. And you can only cover your eyes and pretend not to see.

Oh, well that’s different. You’d better hunt him down and twist his words for another ten pages then, FD. Despicable.

I don’t think you’ve clarified your own position on the abandoned changes to the act, FD. What say you?

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49281 At my desk.	Re: Is Islam against free speech? Reply #397 - Nov 2^nd, 2014 at 3:43pm How have I twisted Gandalf's words Karnal? Do you want to join in the Muslim reinterpretation game, where nothing means what it says?
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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96294 Gender:	Re: Is Islam against free speech? Reply #398 - Nov 2^nd, 2014 at 4:14pm freediver wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2014 at 3:43pm: How have I twisted Gandalf's words Karnal? You don’t really want me to answer that, do you?
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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49281 At my desk.	Re: Is Islam against free speech? Reply #399 - Nov 2^nd, 2014 at 6:19pm I don't expect you to. What do you think of Gandalf's claim that the vast majority of Australians want to ban mockery and criticism of religion?
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Datalife

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #400 - Nov 2^nd, 2014 at 6:23pm

freediver wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2014 at 6:19pm:

I don't expect you to.

What do you think of Gandalf's claim that the vast majority of Australians want to ban mockery and criticism of religion?

I am all for mocking and criticising religion, and somewhat bemused that because it is a religion it should be somehow divorced and protected from criticism. Hell, there is a lot to criticise.

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"If they’re out there in the high seas, what you would do is seek to turn them back through the agency of the Australian Navy".

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Datalife

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #401 - Nov 2^nd, 2014 at 6:27pm

As for the claim, that islam is against free speech, I am told that Islam is not a monolith, so it cannot be said that Islam itself is an entity that is against free speech, but a lot of islamic fanbois are against criticism of Islam and will happily kill you for doing so. I believe some anti blasphemy balloons have been raised at the UN.

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"If they’re out there in the high seas, what you would do is seek to turn them back through the agency of the Australian Navy".

Kevin Rudd on 2GB, July 12, 2007

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Karnal

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #402 - Nov 2^nd, 2014 at 7:51pm

freediver wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2014 at 6:19pm:

I don't expect you to.

What do you think of Gandalf's claim that the vast majority of Australians want to ban mockery and criticism of religion?

Oh, I know.

Why are you asking me about G’s claim?

Seriously. I mean this as one of your questions that are just questions. Are you asking me to speak on behalf of G?

I’m very curious.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49281 At my desk.	Re: Is Islam against free speech? Reply #403 - Nov 2^nd, 2014 at 8:15pm I have many reasons Karnal. I would like to hear your opinion. I am hoping that I will not have to explain it to Gandalf, and I think that won't be necessary when he realises how isolated he is on this point. Even Brian can't figure out which way to bend.
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Karnal

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #404 - Nov 2^nd, 2014 at 8:25pm

FD, as soon as G told you his point of view, the correct answer would have been, ah.

Instead, you want to rail in Brian, me, and Gud knows who else to play your dumb games.

You simply can’t accept that someone has a view you may not like. Now.

Alas, FD, you lack that one thing you try so ever hard to obtain: credibility. The 2007 FD had it. You gave it away.

You’ve become a silly parody of your former self. Once, you had it all, now you’re just a silly.

Who knows? Maybe you can change back.

You won’t.

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Poll
Question: most effective attacks on our freedom of speech?
Muslims preventing people from mocking Muhammed 11 (55.0%) Journalists not reporting some ASIO intel ops 4 (20.0%) Something else 5 (25.0%) Total votes: 20 « Created by: freediver on: Oct 9^th, 2014 at 12:43pm »