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Poll Poll
Question: most effective attacks on our freedom of speech?

Muslims preventing people from mocking Muhammed    
  11 (55.0%)
Journalists not reporting some ASIO intel ops    
  4 (20.0%)
Something else    
  5 (25.0%)




Total votes: 20
« Created by: freediver on: Oct 9th, 2014 at 12:43pm »

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Is Islam against free speech? (Read 167217 times)
polite_gandalf
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #420 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 8:32am
 
freediver wrote on Nov 13th, 2014 at 6:05pm:
you have no clue what that poll means,


Quote:
It should be unlawful to offend someone on the basis of their race, culture or religion: strongly agree: 27% agree 38.7%

It should be unlawful to humiliate someone on the basis of their race, culture or religion: strongly agree: 29% agree 44.7%

It should be unlawful to insult someone on the basis of their race, culture or religion: strongly agree: 28% agree 43.5%


Your right FD, I have no clue - but its definitely *NOT* that people want offending, humiliating or insulting based on religion to be unlawful. We know that because they are not muslims chipping away at our freedoms. Its therefore so much more complicated.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #421 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 10:03am
 
See Gandalf, that is why I advise you to use quotes, because this is what happens when you put it into your own words:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 2:58pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 12:30pm:
This does not mean they support the government trying to place religion beyond criticism or mockery.

A survey saying a massive majority of Australians want the government to place religion beyond criticism or mockery does... well... mean they support the government trying to place religion beyond criticism or mockery.


We are still waiting to figure out how someone could be so out of touch.
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #422 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 10:14am
 
we?

Are you some sort of conglomerate FD?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #423 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 10:19am
 
Can you explain that claim Gandalf? Do you still stand by it? Do you understand why it is so out of touch? We would like to know.
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #424 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 10:35am
 
Gee FD - wasn't I clear enough the other 15 times you asked me?

How many more different ways do you want me to say 'yes'.

Feel free to record this post and reference it the next time you feel the urge to ask me again.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #425 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 10:37am
 
freediver wrote on Nov 14th, 2014 at 10:19am:
Can you explain that claim Gandalf?


Feel free to peruse the two posts in which I already explained this in detail - both in this very thread.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #426 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 10:40am
 
Can you explain the apparent contradiction between your statements and the results of the poll I put up in the other thread?
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #427 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 10:45am
 
freediver wrote on Nov 14th, 2014 at 10:40am:
Can you explain the apparent contradiction between your statements and the results of the poll I put up in the other thread?


Grin Grin No FD - I totally can *NOT* explain why a scientifically conducted poll at a respected university using a representative sample of thousands of people would be different to FD asking 5 people on ozpolitic. Its a complete mystery  Grin Grin
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #428 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 10:59am
 
Do you have a link to the information about how the poll was conducted? All it said in the link you provided was that it was an "online poll".
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #429 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 11:01am
 
don't worry FD - rest assured it was totally comparable to you asking 5 people on ozpolitic
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #430 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 11:07am
 
20 people have responded. It was one of the highest turnouts in our forum polls, and one of the most one-sided. This is not to say it is more legitimate, though given the absence of information on how the other poll was conducted, it may well be. The point was to try to get you to realise that you may be wrong on this. I concede that I have failed. You remain an interesting case on how Islam makes concepts like freedom of speech impenetrable to Muslims.
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #431 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 11:14am
 
freediver wrote on Nov 14th, 2014 at 11:07am:
20 people have responded. It was one of the highest turnouts in our forum polls, and one of the most one-sided. This is not to say it is more legitimate, though given the absence of information on how the other poll was conducted, it may well be. The point was to try to get you to realise that you may be wrong on this. I concede that I have failed. You remain an interesting case on how Islam makes concepts like freedom of speech impenetrable to Muslims.


The readers and contributors to this forum are hardly representative of the broader Australian community FD.  To even suggest it is disingenuous.   Something I have seen you've very good with.  I'm surprised you've not quoted Abu to back your claims about what Australians believe on Free Speech...   Grin Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Grin
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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.
 
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freediver
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #432 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 11:23am
 
HB, do you agree with Gandalf's conclusions from that poll?
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #433 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 11:42am
 
freediver wrote on Nov 14th, 2014 at 11:07am:
20 people have responded.



...

freediver wrote on Nov 14th, 2014 at 11:07am:
his is not to say it is more legitimate, though given the absence of information on how the other poll was conducted, it may well be.


Of course FD - its very possible - 20 people asked by FD, or 2100 people asked by experts in their field in a peer reviewed paper.

freediver wrote on Nov 14th, 2014 at 11:07am:
The point was to try to get you to realise that you may be wrong on this.


The point is made very badly I'm sorry to say. You can't just say "you are wrong because the survey sux" without giving any good reasons why it sux, and no, simply saying it is "flawed" and "reinterpreted beyond recognition" without any explanation is not a good reason.

In fact it was never my intention to "prove" that this is how mainstream Australians are. I was genuinely hoping it would provide an avenue for you to properly justify your claims about muslims. Once again we get back to the same old point I've been labouring since the beginning - you have absolutely no justification for saying mainstream Australian muslims are any less "freedom loving" than mainstream Australians. This survey merely serves to get the conversation out of first gear by introducing the available evidence. But you don't move with the conversation - you merely stay with the same flawed and irrelevant arguments:

- there are extremists muslims - here I can show you!!,
- Gandalf betrays the muslim mind with his own words,
- look! Annie agrees with me!!

Here was an opportunity for you to join the "evidenced based" phase of the conversation. You refuse - you flail about ranting about how the survey is "flawed" and "reinterpeted beyond recognition" without giving any justification whatsoever. And then, finally, FD seems to want to move with the times - and brings up... wait for it... an ozpolitic poll of 20 ozpolitic members.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Karnal
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #434 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 12:13pm
 
Yes, G, but FD has shown you a comprehensive survey with 20 participants. It was one of the most popular polls in Ozpolitics history. The subjects were randomly selected from a wide range of target groups and political persuasions. The survey was broken down into age, gender, religion, and a range of other categories.

FD has filtered all this information and provided you with the results. If you don't agree with this information, you need to state why and show evidence to the contrary.

I'm sorry, you can't just dismiss a comprehensive survey like this, particularly when FD has (justifiably) criticized you for posting very limited online surveys on this issue in the past.

You Muslims need to respond to the issue of Freeeeedom. Dodgy evidence does not cut it, I'm afraid.
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