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Poll Poll
Question: most effective attacks on our freedom of speech?

Muslims preventing people from mocking Muhammed    
  11 (55.0%)
Journalists not reporting some ASIO intel ops    
  4 (20.0%)
Something else    
  5 (25.0%)




Total votes: 20
« Created by: freediver on: Oct 9th, 2014 at 12:43pm »

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Is Islam against free speech? (Read 167185 times)
freediver
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #435 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 1:24pm
 
Quote:
Of course FD - its very possible - 20 people asked by FD, or 2100 people asked by experts in their field in a peer reviewed paper.


The only evidence you have provided merely described it as an "online survey". If you are now talking about a different survey, you should say. You should at least provide a link so we can know what you are on about.

Quote:
The point is made very badly I'm sorry to say. You can't just say "you are wrong because the survey sux"


There is a long list of reasons why you are wrong. I was hoping that it would be sufficient to merely point you in the right direction. To me, and the 20 other people who responded to the poll, this falls into the bleeding obvious category.

Quote:
In fact it was never my intention to "prove" that this is how mainstream Australians are.


This is what you said about it:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 2:58pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 12:30pm:
This does not mean they support the government trying to place religion beyond criticism or mockery.

A survey saying a massive majority of Australians want the government to place religion beyond criticism or mockery does... well... mean they support the government trying to place religion beyond criticism or mockery.


Regardless of your intention, what it proves is that you are out of touch with Australian society. It is hard to believe this could come from someone living here.

Quote:
This survey merely serves to get the conversation out of first gear by introducing the available evidence.


It reveals far more about you than it does about Australians.

Quote:
But you don't move with the conversation - you merely stay with the same flawed and irrelevant arguments:


This is where the conversation has gone Gandalf. If you were capable of realising just how wrong you are, you would understand this. You can't just say something that stupid and expect the conversation to move on as if you never said it, or as if it must be taken at face value.

Quote:
Gandalf betrays the muslim mind with his own words


Yes you do Gandalf, and we are still scratching our heads. In Karnal's words, "Ah".
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #436 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 1:46pm
 
FD, to save yourself the hassle of rehashing the same post every time, here's a template that I'm more than happy for you to copy and paste from now on. I believe Yadda uses a similar strategy:

Gandalf, you are wrong and I am right because:

1. its bleeding obvious
2. there are a long list of reasons, but I'm not going to go through any of them - because they are bleeding obvious
3. I am somehow proving how out of touch you are with our society
4. I can't believe anyone living here would be so out of touch
5. If only you could see how out of touch you are
6. Since you are so clueless and out of touch I'm not going to bother explaining it to you

about sums it all up I think.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Karnal
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #437 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 3:14pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 14th, 2014 at 1:24pm:
Quote:
But you don't move with the conversation - you merely stay with the same flawed and irrelevant arguments.


This is where the conversation has gone Gandalf.


Ah.
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Karnal
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #438 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 3:20pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 14th, 2014 at 10:03am:
See Gandalf, that is why I advise you to use quotes, because this is what happens when you put it into your own words:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 2:58pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 12:30pm:
This does not mean they support the government trying to place religion beyond criticism or mockery.

A survey saying a massive majority of Australians want the government to place religion beyond criticism or mockery does... well... mean they support the government trying to place religion beyond criticism or mockery.


We are still waiting to figure out how someone could be so out of touch.


Yes, but have you tried posing it as a question?

G, why are you so out of touch with mainstream Australian opinion? Is it because you are a Muslim?

That should work, FD. You can publish the results as proof. If he refuses to answer, just post the question.

Easy.
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #439 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 3:34pm
 
FD - mainstream muslims are definitely more freedom hating than mainstream Australians.

Proof? easy - because Gandalf is out of touch, and therefore the "long list of reasons" doesn't need any elaboration.

Yes, that really is FD's argument.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Karnal
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #440 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 4:26pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 14th, 2014 at 3:34pm:
FD - mainstream muslims are definitely more freedom hating than mainstream Australians.

Proof? easy - because Gandalf is out of touch, and therefore the "long list of reasons" doesn't need any elaboration.

Yes, that really is FD's argument.


Now you’re over-simplifying it. FD’s argument is far more nuanced and well-crafted than that.

Proof? Because Abu is out of touch, and Abu is a Muslim. G is a Muslim too. Ipso facto, G agrees with Abu, and  that’s a majority of Muslims surveyed.
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freediver
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #441 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 7:28pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 14th, 2014 at 1:46pm:
FD, to save yourself the hassle of rehashing the same post every time, here's a template that I'm more than happy for you to copy and paste from now on. I believe Yadda uses a similar strategy:

Gandalf, you are wrong and I am right because:

1. its bleeding obvious
2. there are a long list of reasons, but I'm not going to go through any of them - because they are bleeding obvious
3. I am somehow proving how out of touch you are with our society
4. I can't believe anyone living here would be so out of touch
5. If only you could see how out of touch you are
6. Since you are so clueless and out of touch I'm not going to bother explaining it to you

about sums it all up I think.


Here's a tip Gandalf. Instead of asking me why you are wrong about what the majority of Australians want, why don't you try finding another Australian who agrees with you? Only one person voted yes in the poll, and they are afraid to own up to their opinion.

It really is that simple Gandalf. You are wrong because that is not what Australians want. It doesn't get any simpler than that.
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Karnal
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #442 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 8:20pm
 
Exactly. G, stop asking FD why you’re wrong and look at the facts.

19 people want Freeeeeedom. It’s that simple.

Now stop over-simplifying FD’s argument.

If you’re not careful, FD will be forced to stop asking questions.
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« Last Edit: Nov 14th, 2014 at 8:28pm by Karnal »  
 
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freediver
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #443 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 9:04pm
 
It's 20 now. Against one person, who is afraid to own their opinion. And Gandalf still insists that one person represents the vast majority of Australian.

For someone who objected to being dragged into this debate, you are making a great effort to participate Karnal.

Do you agree with what Gandalf said Karnal?

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 2:58pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 12:30pm:
This does not mean they support the government trying to place religion beyond criticism or mockery.

A survey saying a massive majority of Australians want the government to place religion beyond criticism or mockery does... well... mean they support the government trying to place religion beyond criticism or mockery.
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Karnal
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #444 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 9:18pm
 
Are you asking me if G’s read a survey, FD?

Gee, that’s a hard one. Could I have another question?
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #445 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 9:23pm
 
I guess you weren't joking when you said the Muslims make you afraid to have an opinion.
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Karnal
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #446 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 9:26pm
 
I know. But I really am.curious now. What exactly is it that you’re asking?
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #447 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 9:35pm
 
Do you think the vast majority of Australians want the government to ban criticism or mockery of religion?

Do you think the survey Gandalf posted shows this to be the case?
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Karnal
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #448 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 9:44pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 14th, 2014 at 9:35pm:
Do you think the vast majority of Australians want the government to ban criticism or mockery of religion?

Do you think the survey Gandalf posted shows this to be the case?


I have no idea. I imagine it would depend on how the question was asked. How could you ban it? It’s a ridiculous idea.

Still, we may not believe with what the majority of Australians have to say, but we’ll fight to the death for their right to say it, no?
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #449 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 9:47pm
 
Criticism and mockery have been banned plenty of times in the past. You merely have to chop the head off people who criticise or mock. What is ridiculous is saying that this is what the vast majority of Australians want, or that it somehow depends on how you phrase the question.

You know the answer Karnal. You just can't bring yourself to give a straight answer.
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