polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 2:40pm:


So, then - are Muslims, of whatever degree of tintedness, for or against freedom of conscience and speech as laid out in secular laws made by secular parliaments?

Or do they think that secular societies have gone too far by not making exemptions for religions, especially Islam, considering Islam expressly forbids its own criticism and deviation from its orthodoxies?

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20^th, 2014 at 2:08pm:


I can start a whole thread about race if I want. The only thing I am denying responsibility for is the stupid poo you say.

freediver wrote on Nov 21^st, 2014 at 8:21am:


Good FD, glad to hear it. Presumably then you wouldn't deny saying such "stupid poo" like bringing up race when no one else had mentioned it:

freediver wrote on Nov 16^th, 2014 at 4:11pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 21^st, 2014 at 11:20am:


How exactly is this stupid Gandalf? You already admitted that you made a thinly veiled reference to a privileged strata in our society "who just happen to be white", and who you are particularly intolerant of promoting freedom of speech.

Is it stupid to call a spade a spade when talking to a Muslim?

I am not complaining about making it about race. After all, I started a new thread on the race issue. It was your specific statement about race that I took issue with, and so far the only defense you have made of this claim is to attempt to blame it on me.

Does your opinion on race and Islamophobia change depending on who you are talking to?

freediver wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2014 at 8:15am:


My defense is to say that your idiotic racist statement against muslims is an example of islamophobia always being about race - especially when no one else had mentioned race.

Gandalf, do you think these leaders have also misjudged the views of their people? Do you think when they talk of freedom of speech, they do to really mean the right to mock Muhammed and Islam? Are you still trying to pretend that your opposition to freedom of speech puts you with the majority, rather than against the fundamental values of civilised society?

http://www.theadvocate.com.au/story/2804204/charlie-hebdo-shooting-tony-abbott-condemns-barbaric-paris-terrorist-attack/?cs=7

Prime Minister Tony Abbott says security agencies are working to assess the implications on Australia of the "barbaric" Paris terrorist attack.

"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society."

Mr Abbott later tweeted: "An unspeakable atrocity in Paris overnight. If you don't like something, you don't read it; you don't kill people you disagree with."

Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull also condemned the Paris assault attack.

"This attack was a murderous assault on civilisation and in particular on one of its key foundations - a free and independent press," Mr Turnbull said in a statement. "It was an attack on every free society and on every journalist, every cartoonist, every newspaper, every broadcaster."

"Thousands of Parisians have filled the Place de la Republique to show their solidarity, their compassion, their love of liberty and their determination not to be intimidated by terrorists and their cult of hate and death."

The Australian Human Rights Commission's 'Freedom Commissioner', Tim Wilson, said no idea should be protected from challenge or mockery and publications should not self-censor.

"There is no ambiguity in my mind: these events demonstrate how freedom of speech is a tool to bring truth to power," Mr Wilson said.

"People shouldn't be censored just because they're offending or insulting one section of the community.

"Free speech and open debate, including mocking individuals or sensitive topics, is central to the ongoing contest of ideas and holding people to account.

"The way to address views people don't like is through a contest of ideas and a battle of words – not through this sort of violence."

http://labourlist.org/2015/01/harman-warns-against-chilling-effect-on-free-speech-after-charlie-hebdo-attack/

The shocking murder of writers and staff at Charlie Hebdo magazine in Paris earlier today has shocked the world. Deputy Labour Leader and Shadow Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport Harriet harman has issued the following statement. She warns against a “chilling effect” that will hamper free speech, and says that “the right to satirise, to lampoon and to criticise is a freedom which we must celebrate and defend”.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2900377/Cameron-condemns-barbaric-Paris-gun-attack-vows-Britain-stand-united-France-defence-free-speech.html

Mr Cameron said Britain stands 'united with the French people' in opposition to terrorists and defending free speech and democracy.

'We must never allow the values that we hold dear, of democracy, of freedom of speech to be damaged by these terrorists.

Chancellor Merkel said: 'What has happened in Paris today is indeed a barbarous attack against all of the values we share.

'This is an attack against the values we all hold dear, values by which we stand, values of freedom of the press, freedom in general and the dignity of man.

freediver wrote on Jan 8^th, 2015 at 7:25pm:


It must be it FD. Indeed I could have swore I heard Abbott in that same speech recanting his Attorney General's statement that holocaust denial would "always be unlawful", and denouncing the very idea and issuing an unreserved apology to the Australian people for such an anti-freedom stance.

Didn't he?