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Question: most effective attacks on our freedom of speech?

Muslims preventing people from mocking Muhammed    
  11 (55.0%)
Journalists not reporting some ASIO intel ops    
  4 (20.0%)
Something else    
  5 (25.0%)




Total votes: 20
« Created by: freediver on: Oct 9th, 2014 at 12:43pm »

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Is Islam against free speech? (Read 167131 times)
Soren
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #510 - Jan 11th, 2015 at 1:44pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 11th, 2015 at 12:33pm:
abu_rashid wrote on Aug 4th, 2008 at 12:39pm:
For instance, as you've rightly pointed out, Islam does have anti-blasphemy laws, and in the area of slandering and defaming of prophets etc. there's no freedom of speech.



Bullshit.

Let me be on the record that this is 100% certifiable crap.

And yes, boofheads like Abu are a huge part of the problem too. So please don't anyone put me in the same basket as his ilk just because we both call ourselves muslim.



Not crap at all, Gandy. Most if not all Muslim countries have blasphemy laws, some with heavy penalties. In the more traditionally Muslim countries extra-judicial lynch mobs carry out the death sentence for blasphemy. It is ingrained.


But as GB Shaw said, all great truths start with blasphemy.  The truth about Islam starts with a blasphemy.



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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #511 - Jan 11th, 2015 at 2:32pm
 
Quote:
A charlie hedo journalist got fired in 2009 for inciting racial hatred because he was accussed of anti semitism.
Yet when muslims complain about cartoons do the cartoonists get fired?


Perhaps you didn't notice Wally, but a dozen people just got murdered because muslims didn't like the cartoons. But still all you can do is whine about those nasty Jews.

Quote:
All religions mock the other on the internet.
Not sure what planet your from.


Actually this is something that Islam leads in as well - blatant hypocrisy. Muhammed himself mocked and threatened other religions, yet happily sent out assassins when he was mocked.

Quote:
My views are perfectly in line with Australian law and mainstream Australia.


So you keep saying, but all you manage is to mangle both Australian law and mainstream Australian views.

Quote:
Freedom of speech should draw the line at racial vilifcation.


Which you expand to include mockery of your religion. You pile confusion upon confusion, to arrive at an absurd position, all the while insisting the Australian public agrees with you.

Quote:
If you think I'm wrong, then explain to me why is there no opposition to classifying holocaust denial as racial vilification?


As I have already pointed out, there is plenty of opposition to it, including from myself and many Jewish groups. Even Brian disagrees with you about holocaust denial being illegal, and I am with him on that one, despite your often repeated ability to find a politician telling you what you want to hear.

Quote:
Why do you continue to dodge this question FD?


We have been over it plenty of times Gandalf. I am avoiding repeating the exact same argument, as best I can.

Quote:
To me, the idea that disputing the historical evidence on a particular episode in history is racial vilification is absurd - don't you?


Absurdity is not illegal, nor should it be. Do you see the difference Gandalf? You don't have to ban something just because you disagree with it. That's what Muslims would do. Oh, wait...
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #512 - Jan 11th, 2015 at 6:08pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 11th, 2015 at 2:32pm:
So you keep saying, but all you manage is to mangle both Australian law and mainstream Australian views.


No schit? What an utterly incomprehensible thing to do. I mean its not like we're a democracy and our laws come from our elected representatives or anything. Its not like this government attempted to loosen our free speech laws and was hounded down by a groundswell of popular objection. Is it?

freediver wrote on Jan 11th, 2015 at 2:32pm:
Which you expand to include mockery of your religion.


Quote me.

freediver wrote on Jan 11th, 2015 at 2:32pm:
Absurdity is not illegal, nor should it be. Do you see the difference Gandalf?


If its deemed racial vilification then its illegal.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #513 - Jan 11th, 2015 at 7:46pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 11th, 2015 at 12:30pm:
Freedom of speech should draw the line at racial vilifcation. If its simply mocking islam as a religion, then its open slather as far as I'm concerned. But start racially vilifying muslims then its not on.



Lemme get this straight.

If I say all Muslims are crazy bastards for believing that Mohammed was a prophet of god - you are cool with that.

BUT if I say

All Muslim Arabs/Pakistanis/Malays/Persians/[your race here] are crazy bastards for believing that Mohammed was a prophet of god - that's racial vilifications and so it's not on.


Is that what you mean??

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #514 - Jan 11th, 2015 at 7:56pm
 
Gandalf also thinks it should be illegal if there are vague references or depictions of race or racial markers, such as clothing. Even if these things are not there, it should still be banned if Muslims find it offensive. The Australian public supports Gandalf in this. He can even quote a politician to prove it.
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #515 - Jan 11th, 2015 at 8:07pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 11th, 2015 at 12:33pm:
abu_rashid wrote on Aug 4th, 2008 at 12:39pm:
For instance, as you've rightly pointed out, Islam does have anti-blasphemy laws, and in the area of slandering and defaming of prophets etc. there's no freedom of speech.



Bullshit.

Let me be on the record that this is 100% certifiable crap.

And yes, boofheads like Abu are a huge part of the problem too. So please don't anyone put me in the same basket as his ilk just because we both call ourselves muslim.


When Salmaan Taseer killed by his own bodyguard for opposing the blasphemy laws over 500 imams voiced support for the crime and urged a general boycott of taseer's funeral.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salmaan_Taseer

I wonder if Abu went to Syria,the muslim was strong in that one,i hope they didn't confiscate his passport.
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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.
 
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #516 - Jan 11th, 2015 at 8:23pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 11th, 2015 at 7:56pm:
Gandalf also thinks it should be illegal if there are vague references or depictions of race or racial markers, such as clothing. Even if these things are not there, it should still be banned if Muslims find it offensive. The Australian public supports Gandalf in this. He can even quote a politician to prove it.


Quote me.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #517 - Jan 11th, 2015 at 10:04pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 17th, 2014 at 12:01pm:
Islamophobia always has and always will be about "race"

White muslims don't get picked on - unless they have highly visible "racial" markers (hijab, muslim robe etc).


A religious robe is now a racial marker?
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #518 - Jan 18th, 2015 at 9:55pm
 
Finally the Muslim world has found something to unite behind - their opposition to freedom of speech.

How's that fending going Gandalf?

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/01/17/volatility-charlie-hebdo-cover-display-protests-erupt-numerous-countries

Volatility of Charlie Hebdo Cover on Display as Protests Erupt in Numerous Countries

Protests against anti-Muslim sentiment have now taken place in Niger, Yemen, Sudan, Pakistan, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, the Gaza Strip, Somalia, and elsewhere.

Following the massacre at their offices, which claimed the lives of ten staffers, Charlie Hebdo featured a depiction of the Prophet Mohammed on the cover of its very next issue, which was released in a record-printing of more than 3 million copies.

In what is widely understood as a reaction to that decision—taken as another signal by some members of the Muslim community that their sensitivities are disregarded while those of others are upheld—the protests in predominantly-Muslim nations have found fertile ground for anger and resentment in recent days.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/five-killed-in-charlie-hebdo-riots-as-france-defends-free-speech-20150117-12slrr.html

Five people were killed and churches set on fire in Niger on Saturday in fresh protests against the French weekly Charlie Hebdo's Mohammed cover, as France condemned the violence and defended freedom of expression.

With France still reeling from last week's attacks that claimed 17 lives, jittery European countries stepped up security, with soldiers patrolling the streets of Belgium for the first time in 35 years.

But anger mounted in several Muslim countries over the satirical newspaper's caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed, with a second day of rioting erupting in Niger, a predominantly Muslim former French colony.

Around 1000 youths wielding iron bars, clubs and axes rampaged through the Niger capital, hurling rocks at police who responded with tear gas.

At least eight churches were torched and the French embassy in Niamey urged its citizens to stay at home.

"In Niamey, the tally is five dead, all civilians," Niger's President Mahamadou Issoufou said in a speech broadcast on state television, as he appealed for calm.

The death toll from riots a day earlier in Niger's second city of Zinder had climbed from four to five after a body was found "burned inside a church", he added.

Salman Khan, a protest leader, said 15 people had been arrested. “Protesting insults against the prophet is our Islamic and democratic right,” he said.

http://www.dailysabah.com/mideast/2015/01/16/syrian-regime-kills-ten-people-in-anticharlie-hebdo-protests

The Syrian regime's airstrikes killed at least 10 people on Friday in Idlib's northern countryside.

The causalities took place in the towns of Armanaz and Kafr Takharim, an Anadolu Agency correspondent on the ground reports. The protesters, who marched after Friday prayers for the Prophet Muhammad and to condemn Charlie Hebdo's cartoons of him, were attacked by Assad's forces.
French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius condemned "the use of violence" in Niger while President Francois Hollande said France was committed to "freedom of expression", calling it "non-negotiable".

Some 15,000 people also rallied in Russia's Muslim North Caucasus region of Ingushetia against Charlie Hebdo, which depicted on its most recent cover a weeping Mohammed holding a "Je suis Charlie" sign.

There were also protests in Pakistan on Friday, and in Gaza the French cultural centre was defaced with graffiti, reading: "You will go to hell, French journalists".

In a speech, Hollande urged his compatriots not to change their habits, because "to do so would be to yield to terrorism."

However, he warned that "nothing will be like it was before" the attacks that rocked France last week.

'They have to be punished'

The deployment of troops in Belgium came after security forces this week smashed a suspected Islamist "terrorist" cell planning to kill police officers.

Greek anti-terror police arrested at least four people suspected of links to the dismantled jihadist cell. Among them was believed to be Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the 27-year-old alleged mastermind of the cell who according to media reports may have been planning the foiled attacks from Greece.

As authorities try to close in on jihadist cells around the world, Yemen detained two Frenchmen for questioning over suspected links to Al-Qaeda.

In France, investigators were focusing on 12 people detained early Friday and questioned over "possible logistical support" they may have given to the Paris gunmen -- Islamist brothers Said and Cherif Kouachi and Amedy Coulibaly, sources said.

In London, authorities were mulling "further measures" to protect police "given some of the deliberate targeting of the police we have seen in a number of countries across Europe and the world."

British police officers, for the most part unarmed, will reportedly be equipped with taser guns as part of reinforced security measures.

Charlie Hebdo, which has flown off the shelves in record numbers since the attacks, announced on Saturday it would extend its print run to seven million copies.

Before the assault on its Paris headquarters, Charlie Hebdo had a circulation of around 30,000, with only a handful being sold abroad.
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #519 - Jan 18th, 2015 at 9:56pm
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/17/world/asia/4-shot-during-protest-against-charlie-hebdo-in-pakistan.html?_r=0

KARACHI, Pakistan — Clashes between the police and protesters outside the French Consulate in Karachi on Friday left four people, including two journalists, with gunshot wounds as demonstrations erupted across Pakistan against the satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo and its publication of cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad.

Protests in other Pakistani cities passed largely peacefully, but they were the first major reaction since Charlie Hebdo published an issue depicting Muhammad holding a sign that read, “I am Charlie.” The issue was the newspaper’s first after an attack by jihadist gunmen killed 12 people in and around its office in Paris.

On Thursday, the Pakistani Parliament passed a resolution condemning the cartoon as hate speech and calling on the international community to “take a decisive step to stop such practice.”

“Freedom of expression should not be misused as a means to attack or hurt public sentiments and religious beliefs,” said the resolution, which was passed with cross-party support.

In Islam, visual depictions of the Prophet Muhammad are widely considered to be forbidden and deeply offensive. Irreverent Western depictions of Muhammad have set off violent protests several times in recent years, and that was the case again in several countries on Friday. In Niger, at least four were reported dead when a protest march turned violent, and many were reported injured when riot policemen clashed with protesters in Algeria, Reuters reported.

On Friday, lawyers boycotted the courts in Peshawar and Multan, instead taking to the streets to protest. Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, founder of the banned militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba, addressed a large rally in Lahore.

“It is time for us Muslims to unite,” he said. “Otherwise, the West will continue with such acts.”

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/middle-east-updates/1.637443

Protesters praise Charlie Hebdo gunmen in Istanbul

Turkish protesters hold a banner with pictures of Cherif and Said Kouachi (R), two Islamist gunmen who killed 12 people in an attack on Charlie Hebdo, during a demonstration in Istanbul, Jan. 16, 2015

Saudis to review blogger's flogging case in Supreme Court - BBC

The case of a Saudi blogger sentenced to 1,000 lashes, which has been widely criticised by Western governments, has been referred to the Supreme Court by the King's office, the BBC reported on Friday.

Badawi was flogged 50 times last week but a second round of lashings due on Friday was postponed for what a source told Reuters were medical reasons.
Political stakes over Badawi's case, which included a charge of insulting Islam, have been heightened by the Paris attack on Charlie Hebdo newspaper and its subsequent publication of more cartoons featuring Islam's Prophet Mohammad.
In a brief newsbreak without quotes, the BBC said Badawi's wife had told it the decision had given the blogger hope that the authorities want to end his punishment. (Reuters)

Saudi's top clerical body condemns Prophet Mohammad cartoons

Saudi Arabia's top clerical council, the only body in the kingdom authorized to issue Islamic legal opinions or fatwas, on Friday denounced the publication of "disrespectful drawings" of the Prophet Mohammed.

"Injuring the feelings of Muslims with these drawings ... will not achieve the right aim. It will serve extremists who are looking for justification for murder and terrorism," Fahad bin Saad al-Majid of the Council of Senior Scholars was quoted as saying in a statement carried on state news agency SPA.

French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo's first edition after an attack on its Paris office by Islamist gunmen killed 12 people featured a cartoon of a weeping Prophet Mohammad on its cover.

"It is the duty of the world to create mutual respect and constructive co-existence and that would not be by insulting religious sanctities and symbols," the council's statement said.

http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/protests-break-out-around-the-world-against-charlie-hebdo/18/

Protesters carry signs during a protest against satirical French weekly Charlie Hebdo, which featured a cartoon of the Prophet Muhammad as the cover of its first edition since an attack by Islamist gunmen, in Aleppo, Syria, Jan. 15, 2015.
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #520 - Jan 18th, 2015 at 10:20pm
 


response to post #518 & post #519;



"ISLAM rejects terror and promotes peace and harmony."

     - The Muslim Council of Britain

.....except when a Frenchman, living in France, draws a facsimile of the prophet Mohammed, in order to to satirise the false claims the false protestations of moslems.



+++



Google;
"Death to the Pope for Calling Us Violent"

http://abbagav.blogspot.com.au/2006/09/death-to-pope-for-calling-us-violent.html


MUSLIMS ARE SELF DECEIVERS
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1226196753/0#0
Quote:

MUSLIMS...

"DO NOT CALL US VIOLENT, OR WE WILL KILL YOU."



Saturday, September 16, 2006
The "Death to the Pope for Calling Us Violent" Protests
"......Many Islamist activists are so perturbed that they've taken to the streets to proclaim their seething anger at the Pope for questioning their pacifism."
http://abbagav.blogspot.com/2006/09/death-to-pope-for-calling-us-violent.html



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #521 - Jan 19th, 2015 at 8:10am
 
freediver wrote on Jan 11th, 2015 at 10:04pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 17th, 2014 at 12:01pm:
Islamophobia always has and always will be about "race"

White muslims don't get picked on - unless they have highly visible "racial" markers (hijab, muslim robe etc).


A religious robe is now a racial marker?


You haven’t been.reading the old boy’s posts.

A hundred lashes for you, FD.
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #522 - Jan 20th, 2015 at 7:01am
 
freediver wrote on Jan 11th, 2015 at 10:04pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 17th, 2014 at 12:01pm:
Islamophobia always has and always will be about "race"

White muslims don't get picked on - unless they have highly visible "racial" markers (hijab, muslim robe etc).


A religious robe is now a racial marker?


It's called "Race Baiting".

Any excuse which allows them to reverse the tables on any authority,
becomes an opportunity to use a "Race Card".

Once they use a "Race Card", they feel completely impervious to societies authority, & to law & order.

They feel that they can get any preferable treatment they demand, because it's a power we, society, have errantly granted them. 

Granted them nevertheless because of societies utter fear & horror at merely being called "Racist", even though the tag is totally false.

Another synonym(s) used by Muslims who wish to also effectuate undeserved favorable treatment is "Islamophobe", or "Islamophobia", which is the Muslim equivalent of a "Race Card" to be used to attain unfair & undeserved advantage in the exact same way.



RACE
  = 
A group of people identified as distinct from other groups because of supposed physical or genetic traits shared by the group. Most biologists and anthropologists do not recognize race as a biologically valid classification, in part because there is more genetic variation within groups than between them.




Islam is not a "Race", it's merely an ideology, an "intolerant, totalitarian, political, and religious ideology”

Being a Muslim does not permit one to define themselves as part of a "Race", in & of itself.

Being a Muslim is merely a tag used by those who simply wish to be known as 'followers' of a person called Mohammad.






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« Last Edit: Jan 20th, 2015 at 7:17am by Panther »  

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When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #523 - Jan 20th, 2015 at 7:35am
 
Gandalf do you feel a greater sense of urgency now in your fending off of these lunatics?
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #524 - Jan 20th, 2015 at 8:27am
 
Soren wrote on Jan 11th, 2015 at 7:46pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 11th, 2015 at 12:30pm:
Freedom of speech should draw the line at racial vilifcation. If its simply mocking islam as a religion, then its open slather as far as I'm concerned. But start racially vilifying muslims then its not on.


D
Lemme get this straight.

If I say all Muslims are crazy bastards for believing that Mohammed was a prophet of god - you are cool with that.

BUT if I say

All Muslim Arabs/Pakistanis/Malays/Persians/[your race here] are crazy bastards for believing that Mohammed was a prophet of god - that's racial vilifications and so it's not on.


Is that what you mean??



Gandy, please explain or clarify.
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