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Poll Poll
Question: most effective attacks on our freedom of speech?

Muslims preventing people from mocking Muhammed    
  11 (55.0%)
Journalists not reporting some ASIO intel ops    
  4 (20.0%)
Something else    
  5 (25.0%)




Total votes: 20
« Created by: freediver on: Oct 9th, 2014 at 12:43pm »

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Is Islam against free speech? (Read 167585 times)
Brian Ross
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #555 - Jan 24th, 2015 at 1:13pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 7:59am:
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 23rd, 2015 at 11:11pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 22nd, 2015 at 11:37pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 22nd, 2015 at 7:24pm:
Exactly what is your problem with this, may I ask?



This ...

6)    Some contemporary scholars suggest either justice or liberty to be the sixth category.


It seems they can't make up their mind which it's going to be. So from a young age, muslims don't know if they've got freedom of speech or not and thinking that discretion is the better part of valor in fear of being chastised by their muftis

We know what their justice is though, but perhaps Gandalf and Mr Ross could straighten everything out for us


So, your primary criticism is that they're honest and are unsure about an issue, rather than make a definitive answer to satisfy you?   Roll Eyes


Being unsure whether justice and liberty are at the core of law is hardly a trivial detail.


Did I suggest it was?  It is however better to indicate whether or not you're unsure than lie about it, now isn't it, FD?

So, which is more important, FD?

Without justice, what is liberty except anarchy?  Without liberty, what is justice except despotism?    Roll Eyes
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Soren
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #556 - Jan 24th, 2015 at 3:11pm
 
They are unsure because neither justice nor liberty (which belong together in the West) are central or even clearly understood by Islam which is Submission, that is, neither liberty nor justice.
Hence the vacillation of Muslims in the west about these foreign to Islam  concepts.
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freediver
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #557 - Jan 24th, 2015 at 3:39pm
 
The tiny minority is at it again.

Anti-Charlie Hebdo protesters in Lakemba take aim at free speech, 'arrogant West' at Hizb ut-Tahrir rally

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-23/anti-charlie-hebdo-protesters-in-sydney-reject-freedom-of-speech/6043866

Police said about 800 people attended the rally, organised by controversial Islamic group Hizb ut-Tahrir outside the Lakemba railway station at sunset.

One speaker at the rally, Sufyan Badar, took aim at what he called the arrogant West

"They force their world view onto us: 'We are the arrogant West and you Muslims have to accept our world view, you have to accept our freedoms ... to insult your prophet'," he told the crowd.

He dismissed the defence of freedom of speech.

"We rejected freedom yesterday, we rejected freedom today and we reject your freedom tomorrow," he said.



They also have tiny minorities in Afghanistan, Pakistan and India:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 9:58am:
https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/26087596/charlie-hebdo-protests-erupt-across-souther...

Islamabad (AFP) - Tens of thousands across Afghanistan, Pakistan and Muslim-majority Indian Kashmir took to the streets on Friday for southern Asia's biggest protests yet against satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo's cartoon portrayal of the Prophet Mohammed.

Up to 20,000 demonstrators in the western Afghan city of Herat and 15,000 in Pakistan's capital, Islamabad, burned French flags and chanted slogans calling for France's downfall, while a smaller Pakistani protest saw an effigy of France's President Francois Hollande set on fire.

In Srinagar, the largest city on the Indian-controlled side of the disputed region of Kashmir, police clashed with a contingent of around 3,000 demonstrators after shops and businesses were ordered to close by a leading Muslim organisation and several separatist groups.

The clashes broke out when police fired smoke canisters and shot into the air to disperse a group of protestors who began chanting "Down with Charlie Hebdo" after emerging from mosques.

Islamist gunmen stormed the offices of French weekly Charlie Hebdo -- which has published controversial cartoons of the prophet on several occasions -- in Paris on January 7, killing 12 people.

In response, Charlie Hebdo last week published a "survivors" issue with an image of the Prophet Mohammed weeping on the cover, which has led to small, sporadic protests across Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Friday's rally in Islamabad was led by the hardline Jamaat-e-Islami (JI) party, and though peaceful demonstrators burned French, British and American flags, while urging Pakistan to cut ties with Paris and calling for a boycott of French products.

Carrying placards and banners, protesters in Islamabad chanted "death to France", "our prophet, our honour" and "death to the blasphemers".

Jamaat-e-Islami chief Siraj-ul-Haq called for a UN ban on blasphemy, while Khawaja Saad Rafique, a federal minister in the Pakistani cabinet, also condemned the depiction of the prophet by Charlie Hebdo as "hate speech, journalistic terrorism".

So far public displays of anger against the magazine, which is not available in Pakistan either in print or online, have largely been limited to followers of religious parties.

Around 4,000 people rallied in Karachi, while protests in Quetta -- where the Hollande effigy was burned -- as well as the northwestern city of Peshawar, the eastern city of Lahore and Muzaffarabad, the capital of Pakistan-administered Kashmir, each drew around 2,000 activists. No violence was reported from any of the Pakistani rallies.

- 'Intolerable insult' to Islam -

Meanwhile in Afghanistan, protesters in the capital of Kabul held posters depicting a red heart and the name of the Prophet as they marched on the streets, while an AFP reporter at the scene in Herat and the provincial governor's spokesman Ehsanullah Hayat said the crowd there was at least 20,000 strong.

"No Muslim can tolerate insults to our beloved prophet Mohammed, we demand the French government apologise to all Muslims and punish those who have insulted Islam," said one protester in Herat.

A small number of demonstrators threw stones at the French embassy in Kabul, prompting guards to fire one or two warning shots.

Thousands of miles away, 800 people also took part in an anti-Charlie Hebdo protest in Sydney, Australia, carrying "Je suis Muslim" signs in what police said was a peaceful rally.

"They force their world view onto us: 'We are the arrogant West and you Muslims have to accept our world view, you have to accept our freedom... to insult your prophet'," demonstrator Sufyan Badar told the crowd. "But we rejected freedom yesterday, we reject freedom today and we reject your freedom tomorrow."

In Abidjan, the main city of Ivory Coast, west Africa, between 200 and 300 people protested the cartoons amid a heavy police presence Friday, a security source said. Muslims have a slender majority over Christians in Ivory Coast and the two communities live mostly in harmony.

Images of the prophet are considered blasphemous by many Muslims and the magazine's publishing of the cartoon has trigged protests in Muslim countries around the world.

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« Last Edit: Jan 24th, 2015 at 4:06pm by freediver »  

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Brian Ross
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #558 - Jan 24th, 2015 at 4:43pm
 
Wow 0.168% of the Muslim population holds strange ideas on Freedom of Speech...   Roll Eyes
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Soren
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #559 - Jan 24th, 2015 at 6:07pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 4:43pm:
Wow 0.168% of the Muslim population holds strange ideas on Freedom of Speech...   Roll Eyes

Yeah - and they are organised and militantly Islamic. They are not afraid to spell out their impeccably Islamic ideas. Not strange - Islamic.
That's why the 'vast majority' are not setting the agenda.
Where is the massive Muslim demonstration in Australia in solidarity with the murdered cartoonists? Nowhere because  they are lying doggo as always.
Once again the only Muslims on the street are the agenda setting strong horse militants.

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Brian Ross
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #560 - Jan 24th, 2015 at 6:12pm
 
Soren wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 6:07pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 4:43pm:
Wow 0.168% of the Muslim population holds strange ideas on Freedom of Speech...   Roll Eyes

Yeah - and they are organised and militantly Islamic.


Yet they are expressing their opinions peacefully, Soren.

Quote:
That's why the 'vast majority' are not setting the agenda.


They are a noisy minority, Soren.  Why do you assume they are "setting the agenda" when the other 99.832% are obviously ignoring them?   Roll Eyes

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Soren
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #561 - Jan 24th, 2015 at 6:27pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 6:12pm:
Soren wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 6:07pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 4:43pm:
Wow 0.168% of the Muslim population holds strange ideas on Freedom of Speech...   Roll Eyes

Yeah - and they are organised and militantly Islamic.


Yet they are expressing their opinions peacefully, Soren.

Quote:
That's why the 'vast majority' are not setting the agenda.


They are a noisy minority, Soren.  Why do you assume they are "setting the agenda" when the other 99.832% are obviously ignoring them?   Roll Eyes


So where does the vast majority stand? Nobody knows. They have nothing to do with Islam, despite the Ummah, whenever something like the Paris murders in the name of Islam happen.
Personally I do not believe that the 'vast majority' have nothing to do with anything. If the division was really along the lines of vast/tiny, they could have reigned in the tiny minority a long time ago. But that division is not true.
I'd say the vast majority would have supported the punishing of Charlie, including putting them out of business. Now that they are murdered I think they shake their heas but say that it was coming to Charlie. A tacit acceptance that Muslims WILL murder in the name Islam.
It wasn't any other group mocked by Charlie - not the Jews, catholics, le pen, or the major parties of France who murdered them. It was once again riotous, murderous Muslims.
I don't buy the tiny minority schtick, Brain. It's nonsense. People have left ideologies for far, far less than what Islam has been doing around the world.
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #562 - Jan 24th, 2015 at 7:19pm
 
Soren wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 3:11pm:
They are unsure because neither justice nor liberty (which belong together in the West) are central or even clearly understood by Islam which is Submission, that is, neither liberty nor justice.
Hence the vacillation of Muslims in the west about these foreign to Islam  concepts.


I say, old boy, are you now standing up for justice and liberty?

Oh, old boy, you really are a tease.
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #563 - Jan 24th, 2015 at 8:31pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 3:39pm:
"We rejected freedom yesterday, we rejected freedom today and we reject your freedom tomorrow," he said.



What more proof do we need that this "tiny" minority of Muslims don't believe in freedom ... and be aware that trouble makers can emerge from "tiny" hot head minorities like this one. BTW I didn't see the "Moderates" reigning them in

Notice though that they were free to hold their rally and make belligerent statements ... so a bit hypocritical rejecting freedom I think

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #564 - Jan 24th, 2015 at 9:10pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 8:31pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 3:39pm:
"We rejected freedom yesterday, we rejected freedom today and we reject your freedom tomorrow," he said.



What more proof do we need that this "tiny" minority of Muslims don't believe in freedom ... and be aware that trouble makers can emerge from "tiny" hot head minorities like this one. BTW I didn't see the "Moderates" reigning them in

Notice though that they were free to hold their rally and make belligerent statements ... so a bit hypocritical rejecting freedom I think



Ah yes, they were free.

Ban them.
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #565 - Jan 24th, 2015 at 9:12pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 6:12pm:
Soren wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 6:07pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 4:43pm:
Wow 0.168% of the Muslim population holds strange ideas on Freedom of Speech...   Roll Eyes

Yeah - and they are organised and militantly Islamic.


Yet they are expressing their opinions peacefully, Soren.

Quote:
That's why the 'vast majority' are not setting the agenda.


They are a noisy minority, Soren.  Why do you assume they are "setting the agenda" when the other 99.832% are obviously ignoring them?   Roll Eyes



They are a noisy minority who reflect the opinion of far more than 0.2% of Muslims. In many places they are representative of the majority of Muslims. In many places, the majority of Muslims hold even more extreme views than this.
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Soren
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #566 - Jan 24th, 2015 at 9:34pm
 
Muslims have this choice - freedom and justice  OR submission to Mohammed's ideas.
There is no overlap.
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #567 - Jan 24th, 2015 at 9:53pm
 
Soren wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 9:34pm:
Muslims have this choice - freedom and justice  OR submission to Mohammed's ideas.
There is no overlap.


Good point, old boy. Lutherans don’t have this choice.
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #568 - Jan 24th, 2015 at 11:22pm
 
Soren wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 6:07pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 4:43pm:
Wow 0.168% of the Muslim population holds strange ideas on Freedom of Speech...   Roll Eyes

Yeah - and they are organised and militantly Islamic. They are not afraid to spell out their impeccably Islamic ideas. Not strange - Islamic.
That's why the 'vast majority' are not setting the agenda.
Where is the massive Muslim demonstration in Australia in solidarity with the murdered cartoonists?
Nowhere because  they are lying doggo as always.
Once again the only Muslims on the street are the agenda setting strong horse militants.




Lying dogs, more like.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
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Brian Ross
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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #569 - Jan 25th, 2015 at 12:50am
 
freediver wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 9:12pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 6:12pm:
Soren wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 6:07pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 24th, 2015 at 4:43pm:
Wow 0.168% of the Muslim population holds strange ideas on Freedom of Speech...   Roll Eyes

Yeah - and they are organised and militantly Islamic.


Yet they are expressing their opinions peacefully, Soren.

Quote:
That's why the 'vast majority' are not setting the agenda.


They are a noisy minority, Soren.  Why do you assume they are "setting the agenda" when the other 99.832% are obviously ignoring them?   Roll Eyes



They are a noisy minority who reflect the opinion of far more than 0.2% of Muslims. In many places they are representative of the majority of Muslims. In many places, the majority of Muslims hold even more extreme views than this.


Not sure where you're getting your 2% number from FD.

Where in Australia are they represent "the majority of Muslims", FD?  Where did that factoid come from, might I ask?   Perhaps you'd like to provide a link to this source, please?   And where are these places in Australia where the "majority of Muslims hold even more extreme views than this"?  Again, where did you find this claim?  A link please?

Or are these just more examples of lies you've made up?   Roll Eyes
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