Australian Politics Forum - Is Islam against free speech?

polite_gandalf

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #630 - Jan 28^th, 2015 at 5:21pm

freeeedom is jumping up and down for the right to offend muslims - while spinelessly apologising for, or even supporting, institutionalised censorship against other groups.

Its also attacking muslims who speak out against people offending their religion as freedom haters who want censorship - even though nowhere do they mention censorship.

Finally its about standing up for the right to insult muslims and islam when you don't even know what you are insulting them about - and the right to make up porky pies in pursuit of that campaign to insult.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #631 - Jan 28^th, 2015 at 6:33pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 28^th, 2015 at 5:21pm:

freeeedom is jumping up and down for the right to offend muslims - while spinelessly apologising for, or even supporting, institutionalised censorship against other groups.

Its also attacking muslims who speak out against people offending their religion as freedom haters who want censorship - even though nowhere do they mention censorship.

Finally its about standing up for the right to insult muslims and islam when you don't even know what you are insulting them about - and the right to make up porky pies in pursuit of that campaign to insult.

"the usual mixture of petulance and confected outrage".

Freeeeedom or freedom is the freedom to say what others might not want to or like to hear. The purpose of freedom is not offence but nor is offence an acceptable limit to it.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #632 - Jan 28^th, 2015 at 6:46pm

confected outrage?

That would be the people who claim victimhood and concoct absurd phrases like 'reverse racism' whenever people stand up to the likes of Andrew Bolt and Alan Jones and call them on their bigotry. Who claim to be "gagged" when people dare suggest that what they say is wrong and offensive.

The sort of people who consider 'freedom' as their exclusive domain to offend others, but not tolerate any criticism back.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Is Islam against free speech? Reply #633 - Jan 28^th, 2015 at 6:48pm Soren wrote on Jan 28^th, 2015 at 6:33pm: Freeeeedom or freedom is the freedom to say what others might not want to or like to hear. or even dress the way people might not want or like. Its the sort of freedom that you reject. Really Soren, your posts know no bounds of irony.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Soren

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #634 - Jan 28^th, 2015 at 7:04pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 28^th, 2015 at 6:48pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 28^th, 2015 at 6:33pm:

Freeeeedom or freedom is the freedom to say what others might not want to or like to hear.

or even dress the way people might not want or like.

Its the sort of freedom that you reject.

Really Soren, your posts know no bounds of irony.

I express my dislike and antipathy. Even that it is offensive to cover your face in the public sphere as a sign of alien allegiance and disdain for local custom.
I express all that with words.

I don't shoot them. I don't issue fatwahs for others to shoot them.

I express what I think. Nothing more or less.

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Karnal

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #635 - Jan 28^th, 2015 at 7:08pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 27^th, 2015 at 6:32pm:

To both of you:

a) I am not condoning violent reactions to insults and b) I am not defending calls for censorship. Nowhere in this thread have I done this. FD is under the misapprehension that the Hizb-Ut-Tahrir protestors are specifically calling for censorship, yet he can't find them saying this. All he can find them saying is that they are against the type of freedom that says muslims must be insulted. That is not calling for censorship. But thats FD all over - muslims speaking out on anything must always mean they are attacking freedom, even when - nay especially when they don't say it. Its the same routine with everyone here - muslims are guilty by what they say against our values, they are guilty by what they say in support of our values, and they are especially guilty when they say nothing at all. Soren and FD are just a slightly more sophisticated version of yadda. Always, never ever...

G, I stand corrected. I just saw a poster advertising last Friday’s rally in Lakemba. It said nothing about the image of Muhammed. It advertised a rally for the defence of Islam as a religion and Muhammed as "the greatest man to have ever lived". It referenced Charlie Hebdo, but only in the context of it caricaturising Islam.

I apologize for jumping the gun on this. The ads for the rally were not about censoring the image of Muhammed or any criticism of Islam. Instead, they emphasised the positive aspects of Islam and its prophet.

I spinelessly apologize for getting this wrong. I’m not sure what was said at the rally, but the call to attend was about supporting Islam, not censoring its critics.

You were right all along.

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Karnal

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #636 - Jan 28^th, 2015 at 7:13pm

Soren wrote on Jan 28^th, 2015 at 7:04pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 28^th, 2015 at 6:48pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 28^th, 2015 at 6:33pm:

Freeeeedom or freedom is the freedom to say what others might not want to or like to hear.

or even dress the way people might not want or like.

Its the sort of freedom that you reject.

Really Soren, your posts know no bounds of irony.

I express my dislike and antipathy.

You most certainly do, old boy.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49091 At my desk.	Re: Is Islam against free speech? Reply #637 - Jan 28^th, 2015 at 7:15pm Quote: Its also attacking muslims who speak out against people offending their religion as freedom haters One more time Gandalf. How is that an incorrect interpretation? "We rejected freedom yesterday, we rejected freedom today and we reject your freedom tomorrow"
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Karnal

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #638 - Jan 28^th, 2015 at 7:30pm

freediver wrote on Jan 28^th, 2015 at 7:15pm:

Quote:

Its also attacking muslims who speak out against people offending their religion as freedom haters

One more time Gandalf. How is that an incorrect interpretation?

"We rejected freedom yesterday, we rejected freedom today and we reject your freedom tomorrow"

And how is defending your religion against the principles of Freeeeedom/freedom?

I owe G that question. You’re free to ignore it, FD.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Is Islam against free speech? Reply #639 - Jan 28^th, 2015 at 9:27pm FD will parrot that same quote tirelessly for the next 12 months - without once stopping to think about what they actually mean by "freedom".
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Soren

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #640 - Jan 28^th, 2015 at 9:43pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 28^th, 2015 at 9:27pm:

FD will parrot that same quote tirelessly for the next 12 months - without once stopping to think about what they actually mean by "freedom".

Just because you have a set of beliefs about Mohammed does not curtail my right to have and to express a completely different set of beliefs about him. Your freedom to believe what you do does not trump mine in any way, not even one of us is offended.
That's freedom of thought and expression.

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freediver

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #641 - Jan 28^th, 2015 at 9:48pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 28^th, 2015 at 9:27pm:

FD will parrot that same quote tirelessly for the next 12 months - without once stopping to think about what they actually mean by "freedom".

Certainly not freedom, hey Gandalf? What they really mean is the long winded rant you made up about holocaust denial and whether they ought to be obligued to have the correct emotional response. Right? Because we all know what makes these lunatics angry. Not Muhammed cartoons, but perceived unfair expectations regarding their response to the cartoons. And being labelled a freedom hater merely because you hate freedom. They really hate that one.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Soren

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #642 - Jan 28^th, 2015 at 9:49pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 28^th, 2015 at 9:27pm:

FD will parrot that same quote tirelessly for the next 12 months - without once stopping to think about what they actually mean by "freedom".

What DO they mean? That their belief about Mohammed sets a limit to what I am allowed to think or say about Mohammed.
Well, they can stick that up their jumper.

Just because you have a set of beliefs about Mohammed does not curtail my right to have and to express a completely different set of beliefs about him. Your freedom to say what you think or believe does not trump mine in any way, not even one of us is offended.
That's freedom of thought and expression.

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Karnal

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #643 - Jan 28^th, 2015 at 10:02pm

Soren wrote on Jan 28^th, 2015 at 9:49pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 28^th, 2015 at 9:27pm:

FD will parrot that same quote tirelessly for the next 12 months - without once stopping to think about what they actually mean by "freedom".

What DO they mean? That their belief about Mohammed sets a limit to what I am allowed to think or say about Mohammed.
Well, they can stick that up their jumper.

Just because you have a set of beliefs about Mohammed does not curtail my right to have and to express a completely different set of beliefs about him. Your freedom to say what you think or believe does not trump mine in any way, not even one of us is offended.
That's freedom of thought and expression.

Your freedom to say what you think resides upon your knowledge. If you endlessly parrot the same thing for 14 years, you’re in danger of being read as a boring old boy without much to say.

Sir Reggie, of course, would be proud.

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Yadda

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #644 - Jan 28^th, 2015 at 11:03pm

Soren wrote on Jan 28^th, 2015 at 9:49pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 28^th, 2015 at 9:27pm:

FD will parrot that same quote tirelessly for the next 12 months - without once stopping to think about what they actually mean by "freedom".

What DO they mean? That their belief about Mohammed sets a limit to what I am allowed to think or say about Mohammed.
Well, they can stick that up their jumper.

Just because you have a set of beliefs about Mohammed does not curtail my right to have and to express a completely different set of beliefs about him.

Your freedom to say what you think or believe does not trump mine in any way, not even one of us is offended.

That's freedom of thought and expression.

Yes it is.

And the moslem imperative [with regard to personal "freedom", wherever moslem have ever gone, throughout human history], is to curtail in many ways, how both moslems, AND those who are not moslems, may think and speak.

Freedom of speech, is the freedom to say what others may not want to hear.

The right of Freedom of speech, is the right to offend others.

As the citizens of a nation like Australia;

We either have the right to say what others may not want to hear,
OR,
Because of some prohibition in law, we do not [in fact] enjoy a right, to exercise freedom of speech [which is the right of an individual to freely, both explore, and to express, new or unconventional, ideas and concepts].

And again;
The moslem imperative [with regard to personal "freedom"], imo, is to curtail how both moslems, AND those who are not moslems, may think and speak.

p.s.

IMO, this image, below, is NOT an example of a person exercising the right of Freedom of speech.

It is incitement, by a moslem, to other moslems, to murder people.

------------>

IMAGE....

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Poll
Question: most effective attacks on our freedom of speech?
Muslims preventing people from mocking Muhammed 11 (55.0%) Journalists not reporting some ASIO intel ops 4 (20.0%) Something else 5 (25.0%) Total votes: 20 « Created by: freediver on: Oct 9^th, 2014 at 12:43pm »