Australian Politics Forum - Is Islam against free speech?

Soren

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #60 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:41pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:27pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 8:54pm:

Islam has the death penalty for blasphemy, the death of Salam Taseer shows it is considered blasphemy to oppose blasphemy laws.

Islam needs blasphemy laws to protect muslims from the truth.

Rather like Christianity in that regard, isn't it, Baron? Roll Eyes

There’s an awful lot of stupid eye-rolling coming from you, Brain, and stupid non-sequitors like this. You call it ’explanation’ but everyone else knows you are just stumped and unable, once again, to make a coherent and relevant point.

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Calanen

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #61 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:59pm

Quote:

*SIGH*, the same myths, repeated again.

All of this is absolutely true, but Islam relies on the ignorance of westerners not to know these things. You can find them all in the revered Islamic textbook Reliance of the Traveller, which I actually have a copy of.

As to the girl in Dubai, that was no myth it was widely reported in the media.

Quote:

A Brisbane woman who was jailed in Dubai for adultery after she was allegedly drugged and raped plans to sue the Australian Government.

Alicia Gali, 29, claims she was drugged and sexually assaulted by four co-workers at Le Meridien Al Aqah Beach Resort in the United Arab Emirates in June 2008.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-06-06/woman-to-sue-government-over-alleged-dubai...

Here is the report on Saudi textbooks. Surely the home of Islam, Saudi Arabia, would not teach Neonazi hateful bigot slanderous right wing Islam, but the true peaceful Islam? Maybe you can give the Kingdom of Saud a call, and say, guys you've got it all wrong - Islam is peace like far out man.

Quote:

In the Eighth Grade, th
e textbook on Monotheism warns against imitating the unbelievers
and teaches pupils to spot “condemnable” characteristics in Jews. It teaches that
unbelievers include Muslims who do not follow the Wahhabi practice of not building
mosques at gravesites.
•
“The student notes some of the Jews' condemnable qualities.”
lxxx
•
“The student is warned against imitating the Jews and Christians' excessive veneration of righteous men.”
lxxxi
•
“The student gives examples of polytheism among members of this nation.”
lxxxii
•
“They are the people of the Sabbath, whose young people God turned into apes,
and whose old people God turned into swine to punish them.” “As cited in Ibn Abbas: The apes are Jews, the keepers of the Sabbath; while the swine are the Christian infidels of the communion
of Jesus.”
lxxxiii
•
“God told His Prophet, Muhammad, about the Jews, who learned from parts of
God's book (the Torah and the Gospels) that God alone is worthy of worship.
Despite this, they espouse falsehood through idol
-
worship, soothsaying, and
sorcery. In doing so, they obey the devil. They prefer the people of falsehood to the people of the truth out of envy and hostility. This earns them condemnation and is a warning to us not to do as they did.”
lxxxiv
•
“The Jews lost their religion and attacked the religion of Islam, which consists of
accepting the oneness of God and the worship of Him alone.”
lxxxv
•
“They are the Jews, whom God has cursed and with whom He is so angry that He
will never again be satisfied [with them].

http://www.gulfinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/IGA-FH-SaudiReport.pdf

So these are not 'myths' created by neonazi radical haters of the workers paradise Multiculti Land - but they are myths YOU muslims created by putting them your own textbooks that you give to kids.

The Saudi Ministry of Education, spends billions giving these textbooks away for free, to Islamic schools worldwide. That's what they are learning. Religon of Peace.

Moderate Islam only lives in the minds of western leftist academics and politicians. Nowhere else.

Want to double down and keep calling them myths?

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« Last Edit: Sep 29^th, 2014 at 11:11pm by Calanen »

Quote:

ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.

Yadda

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Brian Ross

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #62 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 11:34pm

Soren wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:41pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:27pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 8:54pm:

Islam has the death penalty for blasphemy, the death of Salam Taseer shows it is considered blasphemy to oppose blasphemy laws.

Islam needs blasphemy laws to protect muslims from the truth.

Rather like Christianity in that regard, isn't it, Baron? Roll Eyes

There’s an awful lot of stupid eye-rolling coming from you, Brain, and stupid non-sequitors like this. You call it ’explanation’ but everyone else knows you are just stumped and unable, once again, to make a coherent and relevant point.

Do you deny that until recently, Christianity had its own blasphemy laws, Soren? Shocked

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Calanen

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #63 - Sep 30^th, 2014 at 12:16am

Who cares? What is true about Islam is not dependant on what was true in the past about Christianity.

More people died on 9/11 than the ENTIRE amount of people put to death by the Inquisition. Islam uses other religions as an example - its a distraction tactic, it is used to put the person noticing the problems with Islam on the defensive, it's a 'look over there' tactic.

Islam rises or falls on Islam's ideology and record. Christianity or any other religion is irrelevant and is just a Multiculti Tactic - called 'tu quoque' a logical fallacy, which should have no place in arguing as adults.

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Quote:

ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.

Yadda

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Brian Ross

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #64 - Sep 30^th, 2014 at 12:37am

Calanen wrote on Sep 30^th, 2014 at 12:16am:

Who cares? What is true about Islam is not dependant on what was true in the past about Christianity.

Wasn't claiming it was "dependent". I was making the point that what Soren considers unique about Islam isn't actually unique at all and that is the point, really. Islam isn't unique, it's just another proselytising religion, just like Christianity. However, many here ignore what Christian has done and instead condemn Islam for doing exactly the same thing! Roll Eyes

BTW, about 4 times the number killed on 9/11 were killed by the Inquisition in Europe alone, according to most recent estimates. In the New World that number was considerably higher, so I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers from. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Soren

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #65 - Sep 30^th, 2014 at 12:49am

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 11:34pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:41pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:27pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 8:54pm:

Islam has the death penalty for blasphemy, the death of Salam Taseer shows it is considered blasphemy to oppose blasphemy laws.

Islam needs blasphemy laws to protect muslims from the truth.

Rather like Christianity in that regard, isn't it, Baron? Roll Eyes

There’s an awful lot of stupid eye-rolling coming from you, Brain, and stupid non-sequitors like this. You call it ’explanation’ but everyone else knows you are just stumped and unable, once again, to make a coherent and relevant point.

Do you deny that until recently, Christianity had its own blasphemy laws, Soren? Shocked

Right there is the point you do everything to avoid:
Christianity has changed for the better.
Islam is not changing for the better.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #66 - Sep 30^th, 2014 at 12:56am

Soren wrote on Sep 30^th, 2014 at 12:49am:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 11:34pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:41pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:27pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 8:54pm:

Islam has the death penalty for blasphemy, the death of Salam Taseer shows it is considered blasphemy to oppose blasphemy laws.

Islam needs blasphemy laws to protect muslims from the truth.

Rather like Christianity in that regard, isn't it, Baron? Roll Eyes

There’s an awful lot of stupid eye-rolling coming from you, Brain, and stupid non-sequitors like this. You call it ’explanation’ but everyone else knows you are just stumped and unable, once again, to make a coherent and relevant point.

Do you deny that until recently, Christianity had its own blasphemy laws, Soren? Shocked

Right there is the point you do everything to avoid:
Christianity has changed for the better.

Never denied that, Soren. You however, like to avoid comparisons between the world's two major proselytising religions for some reason. Why?

Quote:

Islam is not changing for the better.

Debatable. Very debatable. You've demonstrated that you refuse to believe there is even a modernist movement within Islam, Soren. I'd suggest that we are seeing a shake out of the radicals versus the moderates. Islam is changing. Which way, I don't know but I suspect it will not resemble what you claim it is, in the end. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Quantum

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #67 - Sep 30^th, 2014 at 1:08am

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 30^th, 2014 at 12:56am:

Soren wrote on Sep 30^th, 2014 at 12:49am:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 11:34pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:41pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:27pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 8:54pm:

Islam has the death penalty for blasphemy, the death of Salam Taseer shows it is considered blasphemy to oppose blasphemy laws.

Islam needs blasphemy laws to protect muslims from the truth.

Rather like Christianity in that regard, isn't it, Baron? Roll Eyes

There’s an awful lot of stupid eye-rolling coming from you, Brain, and stupid non-sequitors like this. You call it ’explanation’ but everyone else knows you are just stumped and unable, once again, to make a coherent and relevant point.

Do you deny that until recently, Christianity had its own blasphemy laws, Soren? Shocked

Right there is the point you do everything to avoid:
Christianity has changed for the better.

Never denied that, Soren. You however, like to avoid comparisons between the world's two major proselytising religions for some reason. Why?

Quote:

Islam is not changing for the better.

Debatable. Very debatable. You've demonstrated that you refuse to believe there is even a modernist movement within Islam, Soren. I'd suggest that we are seeing a shake out of the radicals versus the moderates. Islam is changing. Which way, I don't know but I suspect it will not resemble what you claim it is, in the end. Roll Eyes

Islam is clearly changing for the worse. It now has the finances and the technology to cause serious damage globally. If it was changing for the better it would use these opportunists to adapt into the modern world for good. Instead, global Islamic terrorism of an unmatched degree has rocked the 21st century.

Islam was barbaric a century ago but it didn't know any better. It has no excuse now. It has seen through global travel, global commerce, and global telecommunications, just how out of date it is. But instead of modernising, it wants to blow everyone back to the 1st millennium. That is anything but an improvement. Before it was evil through ignorance. Now it is wilfully evil.

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Yadda

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #68 - Sep 30^th, 2014 at 6:17am

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 8:05pm:

Yadda wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 7:32pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 7:28pm:

Yes. Don't you believe in Freedom of Speech, Yadda? Roll Eyes

Brian, you are a moslem.

I am? And on what evidence do you make that claim, .....

Brian,

YOU ARE A MOSLEM.

Because 1/, only a moslem would suggest that incitement to murder [so as to 'defend ISLAM'] was a lawful act, in a country like Australia.

And 2/, only a moslem would suggest that incitement to murder [so as to 'defend ISLAM'] could be equated with, and be defended by, the common right of freedom of speech.

And you do.

You said that you do.

Brian,

You are by definition, a moslem, whether you deny it or not.

You propose/you are proposing,

that LAWLESSNESS and LAWLESS ACTS, in defence of ISLAM, are in fact made lawful [for you], because they are/would be committed in the 'lawful cause' of 'defending ISLAM'.

Only a moslem would propose that he had such a lawful right, 'contained' in the right of 'freedom of speech' [and that such a right [to incite murder] could be 'lawfully' exercised in a country like Australia].

IMAGE....

Only a moslem would suggest that such a behaviour [image above], in a public place,

was 1/, demonstrating the right of 'freedom of speech', and 2/, that it was being lawfully exercised.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #69 - Sep 30^th, 2014 at 6:31am

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 8:05pm:

Yadda wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 7:32pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 7:28pm:

Yes. Don't you believe in Freedom of Speech, Yadda? Roll Eyes

Brian, you are a moslem.

I am? And on what evidence do you make that claim, except because of your well-known Islamophia? Roll Eyes

What if I was? Would you limit my Freedom of Speech, Yadda?

is "Freedom of Speech" reserved only for non-Muslims in your opinion? Roll Eyes

No Brian, i would not limit your freedom of speech.

But if you committed incitement to murder [in the guise, of exercising your right to freedom of speech], and if i was a judge in a court of law, and if you were brought into my court, and if the case against you was proved, i would sentence you to the longest period in goal that i could, within my power.

Because inciting civil disorder and inciting murder, is a very serious crime, imo.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #70 - Sep 30^th, 2014 at 8:22am

freediver wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 6:05pm:

Saying not to take the law into your own hands is not the same as saying that people have a right to do these things

Nice try - but thats not what I or the article said.

Saying people who offend you should be met only with peaceful dialogue is more than an implicit recognition of their right to offend. That should be obvious to anyone.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Team Murdoch

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #71 - Sep 30^th, 2014 at 9:25am

Yadda wrote on Sep 30^th, 2014 at 6:17am:

[
IMAGE....
http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2014/08/27/1227038/812722-d0870956-2cc7-11e...

Only a moslem would suggest that such a behaviour [image above], in a public place,

was 1/, demonstrating the right of 'freedom of speech', and 2/, that it was being lawfully exercised.

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Soren

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #72 - Sep 30^th, 2014 at 9:43am

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 30^th, 2014 at 12:56am:

[quote author=soren2 link=1217813944/65#65 date=1412002167][quote author=Brian_Ross link=1217813944/62#62 date=1411997680]

Never denied that, Soren. You however, like to avoid comparisons between the world's two major proselytising religions for some reason. Why?

Told you just there, bozo, Christianity has changed.

Islam is not changing for the better.

Quote:

Debatable. Very debatable. You've demonstrated that you refuse to believe there is even a modernist movement within Islam, Soren. I'd suggest that we are seeing a shake out of the radicals versus the moderates. Islam is changing. Which way, I don't know but I suspect it will not resemble what you claim it is, in the end. Roll Eyes

So Islam has NOT changed: even you don’t know which way it will go.
You pit your vast arsenal of wishful thinking and wilful ignorance against every evidence.
There is NO debate around how to reform Islam because it is anatheme to revise the koran and Mohammed’s role and example. Some muslims may wish to ignore parts of Islam but that is not modernising or revising

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\|dev\|null Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4434 Gender:	Re: Is Islam against free speech? Reply #73 - Sep 30^th, 2014 at 10:22am Yadda wrote on Sep 30^th, 2014 at 6:31am: Because inciting civil disorder and inciting murder, is a very serious crime, imo. It is, isn't it? So, when are you turning yourself, Sprint, Moses, Soren, Freediver, etc. in to the authorities, Yadda? We wouldn't want you to be thought a hypocrite now, would we?
Back to top	"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013. "we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions." Freediver, 2007. IP Logged

freediver

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #74 - Sep 30^th, 2014 at 12:37pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 30^th, 2014 at 8:22am:

freediver wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 6:05pm:

Saying not to take the law into your own hands is not the same as saying that people have a right to do these things

Nice try - but thats not what I or the article said.

Saying people who offend you should be met only with peaceful dialogue is more than an implicit recognition of their right to offend. That should be obvious to anyone.

Muhammed's example was to use peaceful dialogue when in a position of weakness and to slaughter when in a position of strength, and to equate criticism with violent attack in order to justify this.

Is implying support for freedom of speech the closest Muslim leaders have come to actually supporting it?

Abu said the same thing about responding with peaceful dialogue. Yet he also supported executing blasphemers etc in the context of Shariah law. That is the difference between tolerating freedom of speech when you have no choice and actually supporting it. That is why Muslim leaders can at best imply that they support the right of people to depict and mock Muhammed.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Poll
Question: most effective attacks on our freedom of speech?
Muslims preventing people from mocking Muhammed 11 (55.0%) Journalists not reporting some ASIO intel ops 4 (20.0%) Something else 5 (25.0%) Total votes: 20 « Created by: freediver on: Oct 9^th, 2014 at 12:43pm »