Australian Politics Forum - Is Islam against free speech?

Yadda

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #720 - Feb 15^th, 2015 at 9:39am

response to the information in post #718

FD,

But why are you laying this outrage, at the feet of moslems ??

The moslem community of Denmark will disclaim any association with the actions of this gunman.

So who is to blame ?

Not ISLAM!!!!

Not moslems!!!!

It is very wrong to associate ISLAM and peaceful moslems with this political violence.

Because doing so will likely stir up animosity and violence against members of the moslem community in Denmark.

AND THAT IS THE ARGUMENT THAT WILL BE MADE, PUBLICLY,
.....BY DANISH POLITICIANS, BY THE DANISH MEDIA, AND, BY THE MOSLEM COMMUNITY WITHIN DENMARK.

'nuffin to do with us'

+++

Quote:

"What makes Allah happy?
Allah is happy, when kafir get killed."

Please watch this YT...

Muslims being deceptive Islam EX-Muslims

goto 4m 30s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZx8cNSC9O0

Please watch this YT...
A UK moslem community leader, speaking in the wake of the London 7/7 bombing;

YT

KILLING OF NON-MUSLIMS IS LEGITIMATE
"...when we say innocent people, we mean moslems."
"....[not accepting ISLAM] is a crime against God."
"...If you are a non-moslem, then you are guilty of not believing in God."
"...as a moslem....i must have hatred towards everything which is non-ISLAM."
"...[moslems] allegiance is always with the moslems, so i will never condemn a moslem for what he does."
"...Britain has always been Dar al Harb [the Land of War]"
"...no, i could never condemn a moslem brother, i would never condemn a moslem brother. I will always stand with my moslem brother....whether he is an oppresser or the oppressed."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Soren

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #721 - Feb 15^th, 2015 at 10:01am

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2015 at 1:03am:

Soren wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 9:54pm:

That's right, Brain, Muslims have nuffin' to do wiv Islam. They are minding their entirely non-Islamic affairs.

Until it's time to riot and pout and tut-tut about someone drawing a cartoon of Mohammed. THEN they will mind nothing else. Then it will be 'how very dare they'.

Some people get upset at the easiest of things, some use them as an excuse as well. You appear to fit into the latter group rather well, Soren. Roll Eyes

Yeah, if I get upset about Parisian newspapers and Copenhagen cafes being shot up by Muslim barbarians over cartoons then I am the intolerant prosecutor of Muslims and Islam.
Both attacks as well as dozens and hundreds of other are motivated entirely by Islam. Yet that is the one unmentionable motivation because not every Muslim was directly involved in pulling every trigger.

You are completely unmoored from even the slightest bit of moral grounding, Bwain.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #722 - Feb 15^th, 2015 at 10:49am

Soren wrote on Feb 15^th, 2015 at 10:01am:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2015 at 1:03am:

Soren wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 9:54pm:

That's right, Brain, Muslims have nuffin' to do wiv Islam. They are minding their entirely non-Islamic affairs.

Until it's time to riot and pout and tut-tut about someone drawing a cartoon of Mohammed. THEN they will mind nothing else. Then it will be 'how very dare they'.

Some people get upset at the easiest of things, some use them as an excuse as well. You appear to fit into the latter group rather well, Soren. Roll Eyes

Yeah, if I get upset about Parisian newspapers and Copenhagen cafes being shot up by Muslim barbarians over cartoons then I am the intolerant prosecutor of Muslims and Islam.

You appear to think we should think of this level of upsettedness as being separate to all the other upsettedness you've displayed over other, much smaller things, Soren. Why? Do you think we are really that foolish? Roll Eyes

Quote:

Both attacks as well as dozens and hundreds of other are motivated entirely by Islam. Yet that is the one unmentionable motivation because not every Muslim was directly involved in pulling every trigger.

They may be motivated by the interpretation that some people place on the Q'ran's teachings, Soren but there is ample evidence that the overwhelming majority of Muslims don't share those interpretations, yet you ignore what the overwhelming number say and do which is contrary to it. Why? Roll Eyes

Quote:

You are completely unmoored from even the slightest bit of moral grounding, Bwain.

Soren, I believe you really need to reorientate your moral compass if you believe that. I have condemned Muslim atrocities when they have occurred. I don't condemn the majority of Muslims because of it, any more than I condemn the majority of Jews or Christians or Hindus or Buddhists when people commit their own atrocities in the names of those religions. I am to differentiate. You obviously are unable to make any difference. I wonder why? Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Is Islam against free speech? Reply #723 - Feb 15^th, 2015 at 11:15am Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2015 at 10:49am: but there is ample evidence that the overwhelming majority of Muslims don't share those interpretations, Really? WHere?
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Soren

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #724 - Feb 15^th, 2015 at 11:37am

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2015 at 10:49am:

Soren wrote on Feb 15^th, 2015 at 10:01am:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2015 at 1:03am:

Soren wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 9:54pm:

That's right, Brain, Muslims have nuffin' to do wiv Islam. They are minding their entirely non-Islamic affairs.

Until it's time to riot and pout and tut-tut about someone drawing a cartoon of Mohammed. THEN they will mind nothing else. Then it will be 'how very dare they'.

Some people get upset at the easiest of things, some use them as an excuse as well. You appear to fit into the latter group rather well, Soren. Roll Eyes

Yeah, if I get upset about Parisian newspapers and Copenhagen cafes being shot up by Muslim barbarians over cartoons then I am the intolerant prosecutor of Muslims and Islam.

You appear to think we should think of this level of upsettedness as being separate to all the other upsettedness you've displayed over other, much smaller things, Soren. Why? Do you think we are really that foolish? Roll Eyes

What"? Are you now the 'Upsetedness Monitor"?

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Panther

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #725 - Feb 15^th, 2015 at 11:49am

Soren wrote on Feb 15^th, 2015 at 11:15am:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2015 at 10:49am:

but there is ample evidence that the overwhelming majority of Muslims don't share those interpretations,

Really? WHere?

The book, the book they all must follow, their Koran, explains that lying & misleading in order to attain the final goal ...... world domination for Islam, by any & all means necessary......are all totally acceptable by the commands of their Koran

So, that said, take this:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2015 at 10:49am:
but there is ample evidence that the overwhelming majority of Muslims don't share those interpretations,

Take this statement, & all others by Brian, with a grain of salt ....... it's all a deception, a lie, & totally permissible as outlined in their holy book.

In order to attain their final end ALL MUSLIMS must lie.......It's not their fault, the Koran made them do it.

It has nothing to do with Islam......It has nothing to do with Islam.......It has nothing to do with Islam......It has nothing to do with Islam.......

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it......"
Joseph Goebbels

It has nothing to do with Islam......It has nothing to do with Islam.......It has nothing to do with Islam......It has nothing to do with Islam.......

Quote:

The Qur'an:

Qur'an (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.

Qur'an (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves."

Qur'an (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..." The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway.

Qur'an (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who must "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.

Qur'an (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts" The context of this remark is marriage, which explains why Sharia allows spouses to lie to each other for the greater good.

Qur'an (66:2) - "Allah has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths"

Qur'an (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means 'deceit'. If Allah is supremely deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)

Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be "compelled" to deceive others for a greater purpose.

Note:

use of Brian's favorite crayons

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« Last Edit: Feb 15^th, 2015 at 12:17pm by Panther »

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When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

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Soren

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #726 - Feb 15^th, 2015 at 11:58am

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2015 at 10:49am:

Soren, I believe you really need to reorientate your moral compass if you believe that. I have condemned Muslim atrocities when they have occurred. I don't condemn the majority of Muslims because of it, any more than I condemn the majority of Jews or Christians or Hindus or Buddhists when people commit their own atrocities in the names of those religions. I am to differentiate. You obviously are unable to make any difference. I wonder why? Roll Eyes

Islam has a very strong and clear message of violence and Muslims who murder in the name of Islam follow these messages very closely. They are not following anything but islam. They say so themselves, every time.

Yet you are always very careful not to allow that Islam's violent message is what motivates violent Muslims. But this is a dishonest and ultimately stupid or sinister stance to take.

"... Kneeling before the death cult flag with a knife in his hand and a machete before him one of those arrested said this: 'I swear to almighty Allah, we will carry out the first implementation for the soldiers of the caliphate in Australia'," Abbott told parliament.

"He went on to say ... 'I swear to almighty Allah, blond people, there is no room for blame between you and us. We only are ... stabbing the kidneys and striking the necks’."

But Islam has nuffin' to do wiv nuffin'. Just because there are lots of Koranic verses urging violence and lots of stories about Mohammed being violent, Islam has nuffin' to do with violent Muslims.

What you are saying it like 'it's OK to be a NAZI because not everyone was a member of the 'tiny minority' that was the Waffen SS ( a few hundred thousand) and the vast majority of 8 million Nazis were peaceful apparatchics and bureaucrats who killed no-one."

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40756 Gender:	Re: Is Islam against free speech? Reply #727 - Feb 15^th, 2015 at 12:25pm muslims are attacking Denmark again
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49091 At my desk.	Re: Is Islam against free speech? Reply #728 - Feb 15^th, 2015 at 12:27pm A worryingly large number of the world's Muslims actually support the death penalty for apostasy, blasphemy, adultery etc. There is actual evidence for this, not just the imaginary evidence Brian waffles on about.
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Yadda

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #729 - Feb 15^th, 2015 at 1:16pm

freediver wrote on Feb 15^th, 2015 at 12:27pm:

A worryingly large number of the world's Muslims actually support the death penalty for apostasy, blasphemy, adultery etc.

There is actual evidence for this, not just the imaginary evidence Brian waffles on about.

Yup.

It is true.

And they are the moderate moslems!!!!! Cheesy

e.g.

"ISLAM is a peaceful, tolerant faith."

....insist an international coterie of Islamic scholars who all back MAINSTREAM ISLAMIC doctrines.

Quote:

6 Elements of ‘Extremist’ Islam That ‘Moderate’ Muslims Endorsed as They Condemned the Islamic State
Robert Spencer Sep 30, 2014

Hamas-linked CAIR and an international coterie of Islamic scholars condemned the Islamic State.

In doing so, they endorsed jihad warfare, dhimmitude, stoning for adultery, amputation for theft, the death penalty for apostasy, and the necessity of the caliphate.....

At last, moderate Islam! The Hamas-linked Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) and the Fiqh Council of North America held a press conference in Washington on Wednesday at which they announced with great fanfare that they had refuted the religious ideology of the Islamic State. They issued this lengthy “open letter” (not, interestingly enough, a fatwa) addressed to the Islamic State’s caliph Ibrahim, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, explaining how he was misunderstanding Islam.

[BUT.....] In fact, the “moderates” who signed on to this open letter have ended up endorsing elements of Islam that most non-Muslim Westerners consider to be “extremist.”

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/09/robert-spencer-in-pj-media-6-elements-of-extre...
http://pjmedia.com/blog/6-elements-of-extremist-islam-that-moderate-muslims-endo...

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1412206324/0#0

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 41954	Re: Is Islam against free speech? Reply #730 - Feb 15^th, 2015 at 2:16pm Soren wrote on Feb 15^th, 2015 at 11:15am: Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2015 at 10:49am: but there is ample evidence that the overwhelming majority of Muslims don't share those interpretations, Really? WHere? Look, listen, feel, Soren, rather than blinding yourself to the realities of the world!
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Brian Ross

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #731 - Feb 15^th, 2015 at 2:19pm

Soren wrote on Feb 15^th, 2015 at 11:58am:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2015 at 10:49am:

Soren, I believe you really need to reorientate your moral compass if you believe that. I have condemned Muslim atrocities when they have occurred. I don't condemn the majority of Muslims because of it, any more than I condemn the majority of Jews or Christians or Hindus or Buddhists when people commit their own atrocities in the names of those religions. I am to differentiate. You obviously are unable to make any difference. I wonder why? Roll Eyes

Islam has a very strong and clear message of violence and Muslims who murder in the name of Islam follow these messages very closely. They are not following anything but islam. They say so themselves, every time.

Just as Christians/Hindus/Buddhists do, Soren...

In reality they are only following the message they want to read rather than accepting the whole message... Roll Eyes

Perhaps you should wonder what drives all the other Muslims who just want to get on with their lives and be left alone? Roll Eyes

Or is that too hard for you? Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #732 - Feb 15^th, 2015 at 2:20pm

freediver wrote on Feb 15^th, 2015 at 12:27pm:

A worryingly large number of the world's Muslims actually support the death penalty for apostasy, blasphemy, adultery etc. There is actual evidence for this, not just the imaginary evidence Brian waffles on about.

Where is your evidence of what Muslims say or feel today, now, FD? Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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SweetLambo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1271	Re: Is Islam against free speech? Reply #733 - Feb 15^th, 2015 at 2:47pm Soren wrote on Feb 15^th, 2015 at 11:15am: Brian Ross wrote on Feb 15^th, 2015 at 10:49am: but there is ample evidence that the overwhelming majority of Muslims don't share those interpretations, Really? WHere? No where as the average muslim is not allowed to interpret the quran.
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SweetLambo

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Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #734 - Feb 15^th, 2015 at 2:49pm

freediver wrote on Feb 15^th, 2015 at 12:27pm:

A worryingly large number of the world's Muslims actually support the death penalty for apostasy, blasphemy, adultery etc. There is actual evidence for this, not just the imaginary evidence Brian waffles on about.

Simpleminded people easily led and more importantly born into islam and intimidated not to leave. With this mentality it is certainly worrying.

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The quran was not written by allah unless allah has no knowledge of science and historical facts. No quran or prophet mohammed existed until 60 years after mohammed's death.

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Poll
Question: most effective attacks on our freedom of speech?
Muslims preventing people from mocking Muhammed 11 (55.0%) Journalists not reporting some ASIO intel ops 4 (20.0%) Something else 5 (25.0%) Total votes: 20 « Created by: freediver on: Oct 9^th, 2014 at 12:43pm »