Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Poll Poll
Question: most effective attacks on our freedom of speech?

Muslims preventing people from mocking Muhammed    
  11 (55.0%)
Journalists not reporting some ASIO intel ops    
  4 (20.0%)
Something else    
  5 (25.0%)




Total votes: 20
« Created by: freediver on: Oct 9th, 2014 at 12:43pm »

Pages: 1 ... 55 56 57 58 59 
Send Topic Print
Is Islam against free speech? (Read 167575 times)
|dev|null
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 4434
Gender: male
Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #840 - May 6th, 2015 at 1:02pm
 
Google: taqiyya.

You might find it illuminating.

Of course, an Islamophobe would.....   Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy
Back to top
 

"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.
 
IP Logged
 
Panther
Gold Member
*****
Offline


My Heart beats True for
the Red White & Blue...

Posts: 11536
Gender: male
Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #841 - May 6th, 2015 at 2:30pm
 
|dev|null wrote on May 6th, 2015 at 1:02pm:
Google: taqiyya.

You might find it illuminating.

Of course, an Islamophobe would.....   


Call me any made up name you see fit, it doesn't bother me whatsoever, nor will it sway me from, or speaking of, the facts.

I did Google Taqiyya and Kitman, nothing illuminating there I hadn't seen before. I searched long before you suggested, & my statements stand, Muslims are permitted to lie in order to advance the political objectives & aims of Islam.  In fact, it seems to have become a favorite pastime of theirs a long, long while back.

I see nothing that contradicts this.

Quote:
Brian Ross wrote on May 5th, 2015 at 3:25pm:


Text from Brian Ross's Link

Quote:
"We condemn yesterday's attack on an anti-Islam event in Garland, Texas, without reservation," the organization declared in a statement. "We also reiterate our view that violence in response to anti-Islam programs like the one in Garland is more insulting to our faith than any cartoon, however defamatory. Bigoted speech can never be an excuse for violence."


You can only trust the word of a Muslim as far as he can whisper it.


Their Holy Books, that they are compelled to obey, say it's allowable, sometimes most preferable,  to lie & deceive.

Muslim Condemnation of Violence is one of their favorite lies.


Quote:
There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman.  These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause of Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.


The Qur'an:


Qur'an (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.

Qur'an (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves."

Qur'an (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..."  The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture.  They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway.

Qur'an (40:28)- A man is introduced as a believer, but one who must "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.

Qur'an (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts"  The context of this remark is marriage, which explains why Sharia allows spouses to lie to each other for the greater good.

Qur'an (3:54)- "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers."  The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means 'deceit'.  If Allah is supremely deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also   8:30     and   10:21)


So, when you hear about Muslims denouncing violence, but doing nothing constructive to enforce their words, it's probably them

just fervently practicing their faith as instructed  -- by LYING.








Back to top
« Last Edit: May 6th, 2015 at 2:42pm by Panther »  

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
'
 
IP Logged
 
|dev|null
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 4434
Gender: male
Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #842 - May 6th, 2015 at 3:01pm
 
Panther wrote on May 6th, 2015 at 2:30pm:
|dev|null wrote on May 6th, 2015 at 1:02pm:
Google: taqiyya.

You might find it illuminating.

Of course, an Islamophobe would.....   


Call me any made up name you see fit, it doesn't bother me whatsoever, nor will it sway me from, or speaking of, the facts.

I did Google Taqiyya and Kitman, nothing illuminating there I hadn't seen before. I searched long before you suggested, & my statements stand, Muslims are permitted to lie in order to advance the political objectives & aims of Islam.  In fact, it seems to have become a favorite pastime of theirs a long, long while back.

I see nothing that contradicts this.


Of course you wouldn't.  You're an Islamophobe.

How about this?

Quote:
In Shi'a Islam, taqiya (تقیة taqiyyah/taqīyah) is a form of religious lie,[1] or a legal dispensation whereby a believing individual can deny his faith or commit otherwise illegal or blasphemous acts, specially while they are in fear or at risk of significant persecution.[2] A similar concept in Sunni Islam is known as idtirar (إضطرار) "coercion". A related concept is known as kitman "concealment; dissimulation by omission". Also related is the concept of ḥiyal, legalistic deception practiced not necessarily in a religious context but to gain political or legalistic advantage.

This practice was emphasized in Shi'a Islam whereby adherents may conceal their religion when they are under threat, persecution, or compulsion.[3] Taqiyya was developed to protect Shi'ites who were usually in minority and under pressure, and Shi'a Muslims as the persecuted minority have taken recourse to dissimulation from the time of the mihna (persecution) under Al-Ma'mun in the 9th century, while the politically dominant Sunnites rarely found it necessary to resort to dissimulation.[4]

In Sunni jurisprudence, denying faith under duress or other permissible reasons as per Islamic law is viewed "only at most permitted and not under all circumstances obligatory".[5] However, there are many examples of practicing taqiyya among Sunnis where it was necessary.[4]

In the Shi'a view, taqiyya is lawful in situations where there is overwhelming danger of loss of life or property and where no danger to religion would occur thereby.[1] Taqiyya has also been legitimised, particularly among Twelver Shia, in order to maintain Muslim unity and fraternity.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiya]

Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy
Back to top
 

"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.
 
IP Logged
 
Sir Eoin O Fada
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 2273
New England, NSW
Gender: male
Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #843 - May 6th, 2015 at 11:13pm
 
Not only are Muslims allowed to lie to Infidels (that's us Smiley) but they are allowed to become Westernized and to integrate into non-Muslim society if they are doing so in the direct service of Allah; moreover they can, to further the disguise, drink alcohol providing that they do not drink for pleasure as the primary purpose although there is no sin if they do feel pleasure.
Back to top
 

Self defence is a right.
 
IP Logged
 
|dev|null
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 4434
Gender: male
Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #844 - May 7th, 2015 at 12:23pm
 
Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on May 6th, 2015 at 11:13pm:
Not only are Muslims allowed to lie to Infidels (that's us Smiley) but they are allowed to become Westernized and to integrate into non-Muslim society if they are doing so in the direct service of Allah; moreover they can, to further the disguise, drink alcohol providing that they do not drink for pleasure as the primary purpose although there is no sin if they do feel pleasure.



Really?  According to whom?  You?   Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin

Perhaps people should look up "crypto-Christianity"?  They may find it illuminating how Christians are allowed to lie as well...   Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy
Back to top
 

"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.
 
IP Logged
 
Panther
Gold Member
*****
Offline


My Heart beats True for
the Red White & Blue...

Posts: 11536
Gender: male
Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #845 - May 7th, 2015 at 12:33pm
 
Islamists, & Islamist apologists always try to foil debate about Taqiyya, by calling their opposition "ISLAMIPHOBES", which helps time & time again with those that feel insecure in their arguments, but all in all the use of that term is just a smoke screen, & if for nothing else, should tell you that you are spot on with the subject they object to!

Here is but one person they consistently, & emphatically deem an Islamiphobe. He responds resolutely to his deceitful detractors.


Taqiyya Revisited: A Response to the Critics

by  Raymond Ibrahim



SOURCE of this Quote:
Having written at length on various aspects of Islam, it is always my writings concerning doctrinal deceit that elicit (sometimes irate) responses. As such, the purpose of this article is to revisit the issue of deceit and taqiyya in Islam, and address the many ostensibly plausible rebuttals made by both Muslims and non-Muslims.

The earliest rebuttal I received appeared last year, days after I wrote an essay called “Islam’s doctrines of deception” for the subscription-based Jane’s Islamic Affairs Analyst. Due to the controversy it initiated among the intelligence community and abroad, the editors were quick to publish an apologetic counter-article by one Michael Ryan called “Interpreting Taqiyya.”

For starters, Ryan is not a careful reader: he says I fail to mention ijma (consensus) among the ulema, even though I repeatedly cite and delineate the ulema’s (quite consensual) verdicts supporting taqiyya; he sardonically suggests that, of course all people, not just Muslims, engage in deception during war—a point I stressed; and he evinces shock that I say Islam has no “common sense” and is “legalistic,” when I simply wrote that sharia law is not based on common sense but rather the 7th century words of Muhammad, which may or may not rely on what we would today call “common sense.” (I had in mind anecdotes of Muhammad saying camel urine heals, people should cover their mouths when yawning (lest Satan dive down their throat), men cannot wear gold, only silver, and in order to be in each other’s company, women should “breast-feed” strange men ).

Next, Ryan makes the usual (and ultimately superficial) arguments without any backing: that I “cherry-picked citations from the Quran”; that I focused on a “very narrow use of the term taqiyya”; and that there are “other respected jurists who disagree” with the notion of taqiyya I stressed.

Unfortunately, he overlooks the fact that, right or wrong, none of this denies that there are Koranic references that do permit deception; that, even if there are “broader” definitions for taqiyya, the “narrow” one I delineated is still valid; and that if there are “respected jurists who disagree,” there are still more who agree.

As expected, whereas I listed and quoted several authoritative jurists justifying taqiyya, Ryan makes only flat counter-assertions whose plausibility rests solely in the fact that they comport with the epistemology of the Western, secular reader, who cannot comprehend that a religion would actually mandate temporal conquests and permit deceit in their furtherance.

For instance, he makes comforting assertions such as “It is manifestly not true that Muslims as a whole desire eternal warfare with non-Muslims,” even though I never argue that Muslims desire eternal war but rather that sharia mandates it. Regarding a verse I cited as being relied on by the ulema in support of taqiyya (2:73), he writes, “To this reader, the verse inspires admiration rather than any other emotion.” Odd that an article in a publication geared to the intelligence community and dedicated to analyzing Islam would bother evoking “emotions” in the first place—further revealing that Ryan’s rebuttal relies more on “shared feelings,” not facts.

Moreover, like most of Islam’s apologists who are obsessed with portraying the “true-peaceful-and-tolerant” face of Islam, Ryan overlooks the pivotal fact that it matters very little if the entire Muslim world believes in jihad and deception. What matters is that some Muslims have, do, and always will. If 19 surreptitious jihadists managed to cause horrific deaths and destruction on 9/11, insisting that not all Muslims accept these doctrines is neither relevant nor reassuring..................
Continued Here


Muslims are permitted to lie about anything, & routinely do, to further the political agendas of Islam.


Back to top
« Last Edit: May 7th, 2015 at 12:39pm by Panther »  

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
'
 
IP Logged
 
|dev|null
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 4434
Gender: male
Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #846 - May 7th, 2015 at 12:52pm
 
Panther wrote on May 7th, 2015 at 12:33pm:
Islamists, & Islamist apologists always try to foil debate about Taqiyya, by calling their opposition "ISLAMIPHOBES", which helps time & time again with those that feel insecure in their arguments, but all in all the use of that term is just a smoke screen, & if for nothing else, should tell you that you are spot on with the subject they object to!


I assume you actually mean "Islamophobes" DreamRyderX?   What else would you call someone who posts continual and irrational attacks on Islam and Muslims?

Have a look at "crypto-Christianity" to see how Christians lie about their faith...   Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy
Back to top
 

"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.
 
IP Logged
 
Panther
Gold Member
*****
Offline


My Heart beats True for
the Red White & Blue...

Posts: 11536
Gender: male
Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #847 - May 7th, 2015 at 1:14pm
 
|dev|null wrote on May 7th, 2015 at 12:52pm:
Panther wrote on May 7th, 2015 at 12:33pm:
Islamists, & Islamist apologists always try to foil debate about Taqiyya, by calling their opposition "ISLAMIPHOBES", which helps time & time again with those that feel insecure in their arguments, but all in all the use of that term is just a smoke screen, & if for nothing else, should tell you that you are spot on with the subject they object to!


I assume you actually mean "Islamophobes" DreamRyderX?   What else would you call someone who posts continual and irrational attacks on Islam and Muslims?

Have a look at "crypto-Christianity" to see how Christians lie about their faith...   Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy


Google: Islamophobes, & Google will correct you to ISLAMIPHOBES  Tongue

Irrational Attacks?  No, not irrational attacks as you absurdly portray.........Factual Portrayals of Islam, & the politics of Islam   Wink
Back to top
« Last Edit: May 7th, 2015 at 1:20pm by Panther »  

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
'
 
IP Logged
 
|dev|null
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 4434
Gender: male
Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #848 - May 7th, 2015 at 1:18pm
 
Back to top
 

"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.
 
IP Logged
 
Panther
Gold Member
*****
Offline


My Heart beats True for
the Red White & Blue...

Posts: 11536
Gender: male
Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #849 - May 7th, 2015 at 1:25pm
 
|dev|null wrote on May 7th, 2015 at 1:18pm:


...
I apologize.

I stand corrected, I transposed.......you are correct in the matter of the spelling, on this we agree, otherwise everything else stands as is.

You use O  and   I used I   Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Back to top
 

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
'
 
IP Logged
 
Panther
Gold Member
*****
Offline


My Heart beats True for
the Red White & Blue...

Posts: 11536
Gender: male
Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #850 - May 7th, 2015 at 1:34pm
 
SOURCE of this Quote:
Have you been branded an Islamophobe – a slur word invented by Muslim leaders and clerics against non-Muslims?
Then join the ranks of the world’s greatest political leaders, military leaders, writers, philosophers, historians, researchers and intellectuals; the movers and shakers of history.......Continued


Call me what you wish, I don't mind the company Wink

Psssssst........Feel Free...,..Use an   O   or   an     I    Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
Back to top
 

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
'
 
IP Logged
 
|dev|null
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 4434
Gender: male
Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #851 - May 7th, 2015 at 2:07pm
 
How about I call you, "DreamRyderX"?

Islamophobe or "Islamiphobe" is so formal!  We are, afterall, friends, are we not?   "Fool" is a better word, I think!   Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy
Back to top
 

"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.
 
IP Logged
 
Panther
Gold Member
*****
Offline


My Heart beats True for
the Red White & Blue...

Posts: 11536
Gender: male
Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #852 - May 7th, 2015 at 3:04pm
 
|dev|null wrote on May 7th, 2015 at 2:07pm:
How about I call you, "DreamRyderX"?

Islamophobe or "Islamiphobe" is so formal!  We are, afterall, friends, are we not?   "Fool" is a better word, I think!   Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy


Yeah, yer kinda special there Breath so.....Why not, it's as good as any. Were all friends, afterall or are you just usin'  Taqiyya on me!?  Grin Grin Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy
Back to top
 

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
'
 
IP Logged
 
|dev|null
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 4434
Gender: male
Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #853 - May 7th, 2015 at 3:28pm
 
Panther wrote on May 7th, 2015 at 3:04pm:
|dev|null wrote on May 7th, 2015 at 2:07pm:
How about I call you, "DreamRyderX"?

Islamophobe or "Islamiphobe" is so formal!  We are, afterall, friends, are we not?   "Fool" is a better word, I think!   Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy


Yeah, yer kinda special there Breath so.....Why not, it's as good as any. Were all friends, afterall or are you just usin'  Taqiyya on me!?  Grin Grin Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy


How can I?  I'm not a Muslim!  Grin Grin Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy
Back to top
 

"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.
 
IP Logged
 
Soren
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 25654
Gender: male
Re: Is Islam against free speech?
Reply #854 - May 7th, 2015 at 9:14pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 5th, 2015 at 4:25pm:
Muslims React To Garland Shooting With Strong Condemnation Of Violence...


First paragrapgh of Brain's link:
Muslims are encouraged not to draw images of the Prophet. While the Quran doesn't explicitly prohibit images of Muhammed, the issue is mentioned in the hadith, a secondary holy text. The ban is informed by the belief that the Prophet Muhammad was a man, and not a God. The fear is that people will become too deeply attached to the image, and a result, begin praying to it.




WHat stupid nonsense.  You can't draw Mohammed cartoons coz someone might pray to the image??? And they kill or want to kill cartoonists to prevent other Muslims to pray to the images they draw?
Who believes this idiocy?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 ... 55 56 57 58 59 
Send Topic Print