Islam permits freedom of speech to an extent, no doubt you'd find that extent quite limiting.

For instance, as you've rightly pointed out, Islam does have anti-blasphemy laws, and in the area of slandering and defaming of prophets etc. there's no freedom of speech.

However, in many other areas Islam permits freedom of expression, such as criticism of a ruler. There is the famous case of a woman standing up and correcting Caliph Omar (May God be pleased with him) when he was addressing the Muslim nation, and he graciously accepted her correction. Also throughout most of the history of the Islamic Caliphate, there was the post of al-Qadi al-Madhloum (The judge for the oppressed), who would hear cases of ordinary citizens against the government/authorities, and would often prosecute people of the highest political calibre.

Islam does not permit people to speak about immoral things also, which I'm sure you'd consider restraining freedom of speech. So things like phone-sex lines are out, and I'm sure that would severely restrict you.

Apart from that, Islam generally has freedom of speech, like all other states though, there are some limits on it, perhaps ours are more than yours. Perhaps yours are more than others? Would they be right in claiming you don't have freedom of speech? To them, they'd be right, to you, no. Same deal with us.

More blatant and immoral insults from our resident Islam representatives, unfortunately there is no surprise there.

Your insinuation that banning sex lines would impact personally on me is insulting, and presumptuous, and false.

What I would do is stand up for the rights of people to use them, if 'THEY' wish to. Their need for, or use of such services does not impact on my freedom, so I have no right to try and stop it.
Islam is not the arbiter of what is right and wrong, it is merely a human invention to use peoples fears and uncertainties about god, and spirituality, to try and control the lives of others, in a manner that they find acceptable.


No your pathetic evasion masquerading as a response deserves fair criticism.
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That is exactly the point, Islam only permits speech about what it decides is allowable, that is more than just limiting, it is the actual and very real denial of free speech.
By defining that people have free speech to talk about only things which you consider acceptable is misrepresenting what "FREE" speech means.

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That you cannot understand that this right which Muslims/Islam demand, to determine what is, or isn't morally acceptable, is not legally, or socially acceptable in a modern, democratic, secular society.
The mere fact that you consider it morally acceptable to have Islam threaten violence, and or, Death, to critics of Islam, or to call for death for women who do not choose the veil, is totally indicative of how far apart the morals and standards of Islam are from those of a decent, modern society.

What is the punishment for blasphemy?

With the phone sex thing, what is the more general 'rule'? Is all pornography or lewd conduct banned? Under what cuircumstances can you discuss sex? Would the Kama Sutra be banned?

Welcome to OzPolitic Lestat. Isn't Kaffir what the white south africans called blacks? What about kaffir lime trees?

freediver wrote on Aug 4^th, 2008 at 1:56pm:


Yes...it is. No doubt a term which has come from the arabs.

Kaffir is the arabic word for 'non-believer'.

And 'infidel' is the latin word for 'non-believer'. A term used by Christians during the crusade to describe muslims. Not vice versa.

Freedom of speech is generally understood to exclude harming others - eg slander, inciting violence. This is where freedom of speech comes into conflict with other basic freedoms and rights. It never excludes the right to criticise other people's beliefs.

freediver wrote on Aug 4^th, 2008 at 2:09pm:


So how does holocaust denial incite violence?