Australian Politics Forum - "..get martyred, and then get resurrected again.."

Gaybriel

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Re: "..get martyred, and then get resurrected again.."
Reply #15 - Oct 18^th, 2008 at 11:06am

Grendel wrote on Oct 18^th, 2008 at 2:38am:

Riddle me this then batman... if a religion is so anti-"things of the flesh" and temptation and repression of what women can wear etc as they will incite sexual feelings etc... why is their reward 72 virgins?

Do women get 72 virgins too?

BTW... read the first page of the link... waste of time, please provide answers... be concise.

read past the first page and there's more info. I don't have time to spoon feed you information

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Gaybriel Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1191	Re: "..get martyred, and then get resurrected again.." Reply #16 - Oct 18^th, 2008 at 11:06am abu_rashid wrote on Oct 18^th, 2008 at 8:52am: Quote: Riddle me this then batman... if a religion is so anti-"things of the flesh" Who said it's anti-"things of the flesh"? That sounds like Christianity not Islam, boy wonder. it doesn't sound like either to me
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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: "..get martyred, and then get resurrected again.." Reply #17 - Oct 18^th, 2008 at 11:10am Actually the term 'flesh' is used quite regularly in the Christian texts and is used to represent things which are unholy or not of God. Islam on the contrary has no such concept.
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Gaybriel

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Re: "..get martyred, and then get resurrected again.."
Reply #18 - Oct 18^th, 2008 at 11:15am

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 18^th, 2008 at 11:10am:

Actually the term 'flesh' is used quite regularly in the Christian texts and is used to represent things which are unholy or not of God. Islam on the contrary has no such concept.

isn't that merely a term used to represent the humanly realm and the temptations within it? as opposed to an aversion to sexuality?

the latter is what I thought you were suggesting, apologies if it wasn't

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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: "..get martyred, and then get resurrected again.." Reply #19 - Oct 18^th, 2008 at 11:35am Texts relating to 'flesh vs spirit' are used for a lot of things in Christianity. They are the basis of the Augustinian view of sexuality and for the institution of a celibate clergy.
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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: "..get martyred, and then get resurrected again.." Reply #20 - Oct 18^th, 2008 at 2:09pm lol One shouldn't confuse Christianity with Catholicism or any one particular churches practices. Now enough of this pedantry and obfuscation address the issue for a change.
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Lestat Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1403	Re: "..get martyred, and then get resurrected again.." Reply #21 - Oct 18^th, 2008 at 3:46pm Grendel wrote on Oct 18^th, 2008 at 2:09pm: lol One shouldn't confuse Christianity with Catholicism or any one particular churches practices. Now enough of this pedantry and obfuscation address the issue for a change. lol...bit rich coming from you.
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abu_rashid

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Re: "..get martyred, and then get resurrected again.."
Reply #22 - Oct 18^th, 2008 at 4:37pm

Quote:

One shouldn't confuse Christianity with Catholicism or any one particular churches practices.

Since the Catholic church is the oldest surviving and largest branch of Christianity, I think it's quite valid. For over 1000 years, there was no protestants, orthodox etc. Both were schisms that grew out of Catholicism.

More than half of all Christians are Catholics, ie. more Christians are Catholics than all other sects combined. There is almost as many Catholics as there are Muslims in the world. So I think using them as an example of Christian doctrine is relevant.

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: "..get martyred, and then get resurrected again.." Reply #23 - Oct 18^th, 2008 at 7:44pm No it isn't valid to confuse Catholicism with Christianity at all. Should I confuse Wahabbists with Suffi, Shia or Sunni?
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abu_rashid

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Re: "..get martyred, and then get resurrected again.."
Reply #24 - Oct 18^th, 2008 at 8:00pm

Quote:

No it isn't valid to confuse Catholicism with Christianity at all.

The simple fact is most Christians are Catholics, using a Catholic belief as an example of Christianity is perfectly valid as they are in fact the mainstream Christians. Just because you might not belong to them is irrelevant. It would be like if you mentioned a belief/practise of mainstream Muslims, then someone from some tiny sect came in and said that's for the mainstream Muslims only, not for my tiny little sect....

Quote:

Should I confuse Wahabbists with Suffi, Shia or Sunni?

You obviously are confused about something, because Wahabi and Sufi are both Sunni...

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: "..get martyred, and then get resurrected again.. Reply #25 - Oct 18^th, 2008 at 8:05pm Ah yes but they are sub-sects of it... tsk, tsk, tsk... just as Catholicism is a sub-set of Christianity... and other churches are break-aways from Catholicism. You'll have to try harder.
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abu_rashid

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Re: "..get martyred, and then get resurrected again..
Reply #26 - Oct 18^th, 2008 at 9:22pm

Quote:

Ah yes but they are sub-sects of it.

No they're not sub-sects, nor sects. They're just groups. There's no such thing for instance as a Wahabi mosque or a Sufi mosque, as there is with Catholicism, Protestantism, Orthodox etc. In fact even different protestants and different orthodox and to a lesser extent different catholics have completely different churches that they attend.

Please don't embaress yourself further, go, learn, return, debate.

Quote:

just as Catholicism is a sub-se[c]t of Christianity

Catholicism is the mainstream of Christianity, it is the bulk of Christians, and has been since the earliest days of organised Christianity. You can keep debating all you like, the fact is it was a relevant point to make, as the vast majority of Christiands DO accept celibacy vows for clergy, and most Christians, even non-Catholics DO accept the Augustinian view of sexuality. Please stop bickering over minor issue like this,

[mod: personal attack]

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« Last Edit: Oct 19^th, 2008 at 12:26pm by Gaybriel »

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: "..get martyred, and then get resurrected again.." Reply #27 - Oct 18^th, 2008 at 9:38pm Lol I'm not embarassed I'm not the pedant trying to worm his way with semantic... btw sub-sects was a typo... rotflmao now how about addressing the issues. No? How unusual.
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tallowood

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Re: "..get martyred, and then get resurrected again.."
Reply #28 - Oct 18^th, 2008 at 10:35pm

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 18^th, 2008 at 9:22pm:

Quote:

Ah yes but they are sub-sects of it.

No they're not sub-sects, nor sects. They're just groups. There's no such thing for instance as a Wahabi mosque or a Sufi mosque, as there is with Catholicism, Protestantism, Orthodox etc. In fact even different protestants and different orthodox and to a lesser extent different catholics have completely different churches that they attend.

Please don't embaress yourself further, go, learn, return, debate.

Quote:

just as Catholicism is a sub-se[c]t of Christianity

Catholicism is the mainstream of Christianity, it is the bulk of Christians, and has been since the earliest days of organised Christianity. You can keep debating all you like, the fact is it was a relevant point to make, as the vast majority of Christiands DO accept celibacy vows for clergy, and most Christians, even non-Catholics DO accept the Augustinian view of sexuality. Please stop bickering over minor issue like this, it just indicates you don't have a very broad intellect.

Eastern Orthodox Christians believe that the Orthodox Church is the authentic and original Christian Church established by Jesus Christ and his Apostles. As such, the Eastern Orthodox Church views its role as the preserver of the teachings and traditions given to the Early Christians by the Apostles nearly 2,000 years ago and the developer of conciliar interpretations which expand and illuminate the original teachings.

But Catholics are Christians nevertheless as all other christian denominations are.

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ישראל חיה ערבים לערבים

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abu_rashid

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Re: "..get martyred, and then get resurrected again..
Reply #29 - Oct 19^th, 2008 at 6:34am

I see we have an Eastern Orthodox Christian in the room, thanks for that tallowood.

I'm sure that statement would work equally well for all denominations:

Quote:

<My Denomination> Christians believe that the <My Denomination> Church is the authentic and original Christian Church established by Jesus Christ and his Apostles. As such, the <My Denomination> Church views its role as the preserver of the teachings and traditions given to the Early Christians by the Apostles nearly 2,000 years ago and the developer of conciliar interpretations which expand and illuminate the original teachings.

Likewise all denominations probably consider themselves to be the true Catholics (with the exception of the Lutherans), as it's a clearly stated part of the Nicene creed, which pretty much all denominations adopt.

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