Australian Politics Forum - Should Islam be blamed for 'barbaric' acts?

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Re: Should Islam be blamed for 'barbaric' acts?
Reply #90 - Sep 24^th, 2008 at 12:28pm

easel wrote on Sep 24^th, 2008 at 11:53am:

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That's because you believe homosexuality to be an acceptable behaviour. For many, perhaps most in the world, it is not acceptable, and we consider it to be a crime. Likewise there are things we consider acceptable, which you consider a crime. Not all people are the same, not all people hold the same moral views about things, you must come to accept this. Your moral code is not universal, not by a long shot.

Tell me, do you think incest between consenting adults should also get the same treatment as homosexuality? If not, why not? And do you not realise that the next generation of Australians will most likely (if current trends continue) consider you conservative for opposing incest, as you perhaps consider your parents (not necessarily applicable to your specific case, but on an inter-generational level this is the gap in views and morals that's largely occured) to be too conservative in theirs regarding homosexuality.

No abu, homosexuality is natural and condoned by nature. Incest is unnatural and essentially a strictly human condition, excluding those animals with low availability of potential mates. Go have a read about MHC. Incest is completely unnatural, as nature will show.

what you are saying is rediculous.

the fact that the human body both female and male is such that only male to female sex works biologically in a reproductive sense indicates that homosexuality is not natural.

In fact unlike homosexuality incest can produce offspring with a chance of inferiority but offspring nonetheless. indicating that perhaps incest is less unnatural than homosexuality.

further more a 1982 study mentioned in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that the anal cancer rate for homosexuals is way above normal, maybe as high as 50 times normal. And a 1997 New England Journal of Medicine study again drew attention to the "strong association between anal cancer and male homosexual contact.".

how is that natural?

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easel

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Re: Should Islam be blamed for 'barbaric' acts?
Reply #91 - Sep 24^th, 2008 at 12:37pm

Not natural in the sense that it helps advance the species or has a clear biological outcome after the act, but natural in the sense that it is innate and hardwired, with scientific evidence to back it up, and not a choice.

Incest has no scientific justification, in fact science shows us that animals are most likely to choose mates most dissimilar to themselves. It also shows us that some animals are exclusively homosexual!

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abu_rashid

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Re: Should Islam be blamed for 'barbaric' acts?
Reply #92 - Sep 24^th, 2008 at 12:55pm

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No abu, homosexuality is natural and condoned by nature.

Nature is not really an entity that can 'condone' something. So this statement is just nonsense.

Quote:

Incest is unnatural and essentially a strictly human condition, excluding those animals with low availability of potential mates.

Wrong, there's some species that do it as the norm such as the african cichlid pelvicachromis taeniatus.

Either way, if they're consenting adults who want to engage in such a relationship, why should society be able to dictate to them they can't? Don't give me this crap about genetics, because they can quite easily agree to be genetically tested for the possibility of any defects that might occur, and alternatively agree to be 'fixed'.

Quote:

Go have a read about MHC. Incest is completely unnatural, as nature will show.

It occurs, even amongst primates.

Your definition of what is and isn't natural, seems to be dictated by which sexual perversions you find arousing.

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jordan484 Gold Member Offline Genuine Aussie Posts: 1115	Re: Should Islam be blamed for 'barbaric' acts? Reply #93 - Sep 24^th, 2008 at 1:11pm Incest = ok in Islam Why? It helps out-populate non-muslims Homosexuality = not ok in Islam Why? It does not help out-populate non-muslims. Same for Christianity.
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Lestat

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Re: Should Islam be blamed for 'barbaric' acts?
Reply #94 - Sep 24^th, 2008 at 1:17pm

jordan484 wrote on Sep 24^th, 2008 at 1:11pm:

Incest = ok in Islam
Why? It helps out-populate non-muslims

Homosexuality = not ok in Islam
Why? It does not help out-populate non-muslims.

Same for Christianity.

Wrong again. Amazing how one can be so wrong so often.

Incest is not ok in Islam, actually quite clearly it is prohibitted.

Like really Jordan...why do you even bother??

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jordan484 Gold Member Offline Genuine Aussie Posts: 1115	Re: Should Islam be blamed for 'barbaric' acts? Reply #95 - Sep 24^th, 2008 at 1:25pm Lot's of things are "prohibited" in Islam, yet occur in the name of, or within Islam all the time. Incest, homosexuality, killing and paedophilia are a few. Although I rather like the stuff that is actually permissible...beating your wife, stoning adulterers....those sorts of things.
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easel Gold Member Offline Posts: 3120	Re: Should Islam be blamed for 'barbaric' acts? Reply #96 - Sep 24^th, 2008 at 1:30pm Abu, a cichlid is a fish. Some fish undergo sex changes completely naturally and are able to reproduce as either male or female. Quote: Incest is unnatural and essentially a strictly human condition, excluding those animals with low availability of potential mates.
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Lestat

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Re: Should Islam be blamed for 'barbaric' acts?
Reply #97 - Sep 24^th, 2008 at 1:31pm

jordan484 wrote on Sep 24^th, 2008 at 1:25pm:

Lot's of things are "prohibited" in Islam, yet occur in the name of, or within Islam all the time. Incest, homosexuality, killing and paedophilia are a few. Although I rather like the stuff that is actually permissible...beating your wife, stoning adulterers....those sorts of things.

Could you provide an example where incest has occurred in the 'name of Islam'.

Just confirmed what is common knowledge...you are full of it.

As for beating your wife....I think your confused. It is Western culture and has a long tradition of bashing and raping wives and daughters.

Domestic violence rates in Australia is one of the highest in the world. So once again.....I have statistics to back up my claims....you on the other hand, have nothing but bigotry.

Is it any wonder no one takes you seriously.

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Lestat

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Re: Should Islam be blamed for 'barbaric' acts?
Reply #98 - Sep 24^th, 2008 at 1:33pm

easel wrote on Sep 24^th, 2008 at 1:30pm:

Abu, a cichlid is a fish. Some fish undergo sex changes completely naturally and are able to reproduce as either male or female.

Quote:

Incest is unnatural and essentially a strictly human condition, excluding those animals with low availability of potential mates.

Weasel...you cannot possibly argue that Homosexuality is natural. If we were all homosexual, then the human race would die out.

In addition, our sexual organs were naturally developed for hetrosexual releationships, not homosexual. Thirdly, animals have sex to procreate...this is its primary and natural purpose. Pro-creation cannot occur during homosexual relations. Yes some animals may practise homosexuality...however, I think you will find these instances are not the norm.

And finally...if your arguing in regards to 'natural' urges...then murder too is a natural urge....do you also condone murder? It can be argued that all 'urges' can be natural, therefore using your logic just about anything can be justified as being 'natural'.

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easel

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Re: Should Islam be blamed for 'barbaric' acts?
Reply #99 - Sep 24^th, 2008 at 1:35pm

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Weasel...you cannot possibly argue that Homosexuality is natural. If we were all homosexual, then the human race would die out.

And secondly...if your arguing in regards to 'natural' urges...then murder too is a natural urge....do you also condone murder?

It is natural to have red hair Lestat, do we all have red hair?

Go read back in this very thread. We have already had a look at murder.

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Lestat

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Re: Should Islam be blamed for 'barbaric' acts?
Reply #100 - Sep 24^th, 2008 at 1:39pm

easel wrote on Sep 24^th, 2008 at 1:35pm:

Quote:

Weasel...you cannot possibly argue that Homosexuality is natural. If we were all homosexual, then the human race would die out.

And secondly...if your arguing in regards to 'natural' urges...then murder too is a natural urge....do you also condone murder?

It is natural to have red hair Lestat, do we all have red hair?

Go read back in this very thread. We have already had a look at murder.

If we all had red hair, our species would not become extinct though would it. Cause red hair is natural, homosexuality is not...it is an abnormality. A mutation.....

I didread the thread, and in no way did you logically respond the murder piont. There are people who actually are considered ill, in that they have strong urges to murder and are susceptible to violent thought. It is a chemical imbalance in the brains which results in what is to them a very natural urge...just as chemical inbalance and illness results in homosexual tendancies.

The two scenario's are very similar, yet for some reason you can justify one without the other.

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easel

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Re: Should Islam be blamed for 'barbaric' acts?
Reply #101 - Sep 24^th, 2008 at 1:54pm

Lestat wrote on Sep 24^th, 2008 at 1:39pm:

easel wrote on Sep 24^th, 2008 at 1:35pm:

Quote:

Weasel...you cannot possibly argue that Homosexuality is natural. If we were all homosexual, then the human race would die out.

And secondly...if your arguing in regards to 'natural' urges...then murder too is a natural urge....do you also condone murder?

It is natural to have red hair Lestat, do we all have red hair?

Go read back in this very thread. We have already had a look at murder.

If we all had red hair, our species would not become extinct though would it. Cause red hair is natural, homosexuality is not...it is an abnormality. A mutation.....

I didread the thread, and in no way did you logically respond the murder piont. There are people who actually are considered ill, in that they have strong urges to murder and are susceptible to violent thought. It is a chemical imbalance in the brains which results in what is to them a very natural urge...just as chemical inbalance and illness results in homosexual tendancies.

The two scenario's are very similar, yet for some reason you can justify one without the other.

For a guy who wrote he knows a lot, you are pretty dumb.

Red hair is a mutation.

Homosexuality is not. If you wanted to you could call it a defect, because it is in the strict sense of the word, because it does not help the species in a way we are aware of, although if a gay people's bodies work exactly the same as straight people and they are capable of the exact same things (such as sexual reproduction) it is not much of a defect, but it is not a mutation.

Homosexuals are completely capable of everything heterosexuals are. Would you call a woman a mutation? Would you call a man a mutation? Because, apparantly, gay men have female brains and lesbians have male brains, or brains most similar to that and not their own gender. There is no chemical imbalance in regards to homosexuality. If it was, it would be very easily treated and 'cured'. It would also be classified as a mental illness.

Lestat, there are also people who want to kill and have no 'chemical imbalance'. They are just maladjusted. Just like some people who have no feelings or emotion and have no value on human life. They often don't have a chemical imbalance, just parts of their brain are not very active.

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« Last Edit: Sep 24^th, 2008 at 2:00pm by easel »

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easel

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Re: Should Islam be blamed for 'barbaric' acts?
Reply #102 - Sep 24^th, 2008 at 2:04pm

There is some speculation and evidence for a hormonal imbalance with homosexuals though.

Some gay men were exposed to too much testosterone which made them super sexual, some were exposed to too much estrogen which made them a bit feminine.

Or so the theory goes. The sciency part of it is a bit beyond me.

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abu_rashid

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Re: Should Islam be blamed for 'barbaric' acts?
Reply #103 - Sep 24^th, 2008 at 2:07pm

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Abu, a cichlid is a fish. Some fish undergo sex changes completely naturally and are able to reproduce as either male or female.

If you read that article, you'll see they found that species of fish has a 'natural tendancy' to reproduce between brother and sister. And they even suggested possible reasons that might make it more beneficial to do so. So there we have it, some 'natural' evidence of incest.

Either way, it doesn't make it right, as you neglect to realise, we're not animals, we are sentient beings who have a choice between right and wrong.

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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: Should Islam be blamed for 'barbaric' acts? Reply #104 - Sep 24^th, 2008 at 2:11pm Quote: Go read back in this very thread. We have already had a look at murder Yes and you failed to address the analogy last time also. If you wish to keep arguing, perhaps you should address it.
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