Islamists pursue political goals under the guise of religion.

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 10^th, 2008 at 10:32pm:





Abu, it is not my intent [as you have suggested] to sling mud - as such.

But i do want to expose the lies, and falsehoods, of the apologists for ISLAM.

And while i do concede, there are many faults with what we term the 'West', their government processes, and with so-called Democracy itself,
the form of Democracy we 'suffer' today in the West, is much to be preferred, to the injustice, the violence, and strife, and poverty, which ISLAM fosters upon ppl, wherever it goes.

Yet muslims will not confront this responsibility [for the strife they bring with them, in their 'just' 'faith' ].

And will always insist that the fault lays with others, with non-muslims, who are always supposedly fostering strife with muslims, and their communities.


+++++

'ISLAM is peace', is the pronouncement by muslims.

Are these muslims reading the same Koran that i am????



In my opinion, ISLAM is a cancer, and a curse upon mankind.

And the world today bears this out.

Everywhere ISLAM is, where muslim communities are, a heightened level of strife.
....even in Australia, brawling and strife among muslims.

EXAMPLES from Australia,

News items,

Mosque violence Tensions boil over after move to replace imam
PAUL MALEY
6/05/2007
A BITTER factional feud within Canberra's Islamic community has erupted into violence with a leading member being punched repeatedly in the grounds of the mosque at Yarralumla.
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/mosque-violence-tensions-boil-over-after-move-to-replace-imam/460671.aspx


Outspoken Muslim seeks police protection
March 22, 2007
One of Australia's most important Muslim leaders has sought police protection......
Tom Zreika, president of the Lebanese Muslim Association - and Sheikh Hilali's employer - said he received non-stop phone threats yesterday after he released a document urging greater integration and for Muslims to "mend their ways".
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/outspoken-muslim-seeks-police-protection/2007/03/21/1174153164032.html


And the source of this strife?

ISLAMIC texts.

Just study the Koran and Hadith verses, to confirm this for yourself.






SOME GUIDANCE FROM ALLAH, FOR MUSLIMS [AND THE DUMB UNBELIEVERS]...

Jews & Christians are peoples who are cursed by Allah.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/009.qmt.html#009.030


"Unbelievers are unto you open enemies."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.101


"Fighting [against unbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html#002.216


"And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter.....slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html#002.191

".....Such is the reward of those who suppress faith."


Hadith....

"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' ...."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.052.196

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Looks like we have another wiki-scholar on our hands. Are you sure you're not related to soren?

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There's never even been a country called Lebanon until very recently. It's just a little piece of Bilad ash-Sham the French during the Sykes-Picot agreement decided they'd try and form into a Christian majority area. It was for the past 1200 years an Islamic country, as the Sanjack of Beirut, under Shari'ah law and predominantly Muslim. Although they tried to draw the borders so it was majority Christian, it didn't last for long and even prior to France declaring it an independant country it was already majority Muslim. The simple fact is that the capital, Beirut and the 2nd. largest city Tripoli have always been Muslim majority cities, the Christians were only ever a majority in the mountain regions (Mount Lebanon, for which the country was named by the French), the French knew they couldn't make a country without a decent sized city, so they extended the autonomous Christian region to encompass the Muslim cities.

Either way, all this is irrelevant to your original, and false, claim that Muslims come here fleeing religious dictatorships. Lebanon is not a religious dictatorship, and it's head of state is not even a Muslim, he's a Christian. Just admit you have no idea what you're talking about, and move along.

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As pointed out above, Islamic influence is not new there, in fact if anything, recent times have only seen the complete waning of Islamic influence there. The Islamic Caliphate ruled over what is now Lebanon for the past 1200 years, by Shari'ah law, it's only in the past 80-100 years that situation ceased, and Islamic influence was replaced by French and Maronite influence. Please get your facts straight. If anything the situation is completely upside down to what you suggest. With the decline in Islamic influence, the country has become unstable and people have fled.

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Yeh like how the Falanj used to tie Muslims behind their cars and drag them through the streets in predominantly Christian areas... Didn't find that one in your search?

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Since this has only really happened since the colonial period, why don't you ask the colonialists who've setup the political landscape there? And who till this very second in time fund most of the dictators there to the tune of billions a year. I can answer you regarding atrocities committed when Islam ruled (ie. pre-1924) but since Islam no longer rules, and it's Western-backed dictators who are doing this kind of stuff, I'm sorry but I'm not in a position to answer for them, as I consider them illegitimate. So ask those who consider them legitimate rulers, and who buy them their weapons and who send them civilians to be tortured...

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During 1200 years of Islamic Shari'ah rule they didn't flee. After only 80-100 years of Western-colonial and neo-colonial rule, they're fleeing.. And you wanna blame it on Islam? Get real.

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What a load of garbage, did they not 'hear' it was introduced 1200 years ago? And was actually abolished 80 years ago?

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Last time I checked, outpost means something which is 'outside' not inside your own countries.

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 11^th, 2008 at 4:09pm:






Lebanon is merely war booty.

So rightfully, Lebanon should be 'outside' of ISLAMIC influence.


Admit it abu, all lands outside the Saudi peninsula, were all captured war 'booty' lands, converted to ISLAM under the sword of ISLAM, not by persuasion, not by any willingness of their natives, or because of any merit in that faith, called ISLAM.

If ISLAM was a meritorious faith, ISLAM would not need to threaten violence, and death, upon those who, being repulsed by it, flee ISLAM.

But ISLAM does do this.

From ISLAMIC law texts....

Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them BECOMES AN UNBELIEVER and HIS BLOOD MAY LEGALLY BE SPILLED. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."....
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/law/fiqhussunnah/fus3_50.html#3.110

From Hadith.....

"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.052.260

ISLAM IS NOT 'PEACE'

[....or peaceful]

abu, why is it that muslims never mention, completely passover, that centuries before the Christian Crusades, that ISLAMIC 'missionaries' overran the Christian Holy lands in the 700's, with the sword, and their own crusade for Allah?

And i say it again, *with the sword*.

And then, those ISLAMIC 'missionaries' continued their ISLAMIC 'Crusade' into North Africa, then Spain, and some of southern Europe.

All at the point of a sword.

Google....  "Charles Martel"

Charles Martel halted ISLAM's advance into Europe, in 732.


And this ISLAMIC aggression, all happened CENTURIES before the 'evil' Christians attacked ISLAM in 1100's, in their own 'Crusade'
.....aggression against muslims which was provoked by muslims, because Christian pilgrims travelling to the 'holy lands' were being mistreated, and killed by muslims.

And lets not fail to mention the later, glorious expansion of ISLAM eastward, into the Indian subcontinent, where tens of millions of 'polytheists' were 'justly' put to the sword by ISLAM.

There is no peaceful ISLAM.

But only bloodthirsty, booty lusting ISLAM.


abu, instead of rejecting these facts, why don't you acknowledge these occurrences as fact?
....and admit that ISLAM, is not at all peaceful.
....but that ISLAM is an expansionist, violent, political, supremacist philosophy.




Accusing others of oppression today, muslims should take a look in the mirror.

But its too difficult for muslims to face their own shame, isn't it abu?

Much easier to blame-shift onto the 'enemies' of Allah, the Kuffar...

"Those 'guilty' Kuffar are persecuting, us 'peace-loving' muslims!"

Q.
Why is it abu, that muslims are never willing to face their shame?
The excuse is always,
.....'Some one else is at fault, true muslims don't do such things'.

A.
Because muslims can't admit their mistakes [to, and against Kuffar].
ISLAM tells all muslims that they are better than Kuffar.
And muslim actions are always 'just', in their actions against the 'guilty' Kuffar [supposedly].


ISLAM / muslims hate TRUTH.
....that is why they hate freedom of speech.


The image [below] of a muslim going against his own ISLAMIC morality,
and is perpetrating an oxymoron upon the sign in the background....

"Freedom of expression GO TO HELL!" [London]
http://openparachute.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/freedom-of-expression-go-to-hell.jpg

Soren wrote on Oct 11^th, 2008 at 5:59pm:







".....In an article in the 1932 Encyclopedia Italiana, written by Giovanni Gentile and attributed to Benito Mussolini, Fascism is described as a system, founded by Benito Mussolini on March 23, 1919, in which

"The State not only is the authority which governs and molds individual wills with laws and values of spiritual life, but it is also the power which makes its will prevail abroad.... For the Fascist, everything is within the State and . . . neither individuals nor groups are outside the State....

For Fascism, the State is an absolute, before which individuals or groups are only relative...."....."


Google,
"For the Fascist, everything is within the State"
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=%22For+the+Fascist%2C+everything+is+within+the+State%22&btnG=Google+Search&meta=



Soren,

re ISLAM,

If it walks like a duck, and if it quacks like a duck......

You may call it fascism, and some may call it ISLAM [....'with fascist characteristics'].


Are either wrong?


It would seem not.

The problem is Soren, how to lift the veil?
....Jane & Joe citizen Australians [and Westerners generally], seem very naive and trusting, for the most part.

Yada....what you fail to mention is that under Islam, Christianity/Judism prospered, even flourished.

Jews describe there 'Golden age' as that which was under Al-Andalus, where Christians/jews excelled under Islamic rule.

Egypt remained a predominantly Christian country 3 centuries after it was conquered by Amr Ibn Al-Aas. This shows that no one was forced to convert....people were allowed to live in peace, practising their own religon...and they did.

Now I don't expect you to believe me...but unfortunately for you, the evidence is there for all to see. Jews lived in peace under arab rule for hundreds of year, there are thousands of churches which remain in arab lands, after hundreds of years of Islamic rule.

If muslims were as bad as you say, then there would be no Christian churches, no Synagogues, no minority religons surving today in lands ruled by Islam. Alas...the evidence suggests otherwise.

On the other hand, if we take a look at Christianity...not one religon has survived the purge of Catholicism...that is, in every place where Christianity spread, it completely destroyed the indigenous beliefs which existed in these lands. Even Judism...from which Christianity was derived, was almost destroyed to the point where jews welcomed the muslim liberators in Al-Andalus. Even rivals sects (arians) were almost wiped out and made a plea to the muslims to come and help (the visigoths).

The saxons, the lombards, the goths, the picts, the celts, the Cathars and the Albigensian, every single pre-Catholic religon was complete obliterated by the catholic purge.

Ever heard of Clovis? Ever heard of Charlemagne? Considered great 'Christian' leaders...yet there lasting legacy was the complete genocide of the saxons (the saxon wars) and the Goths/Lombards. The catholics church's rule over Europe began when these 'Saints' wiped out anyone who was not Catholic, this included pagans/arians and anyone else who slightly deviated from the Nicea doctrine.

When muslims conquered Spain, it marked the beginning of centuries of tolerance, co-operation and peace between muslims, Christians and jews. When the Christians conquered Spain, it marked the beginning of the inquisition, where hundreds of thousands of muslims/jews were given two choices, convert or die. So successful was this genocide that no muslims survived in Spain.

When Jerusalem was conquered by Omar Ibn Khattab, the city was captured with little bloodshed, and even the Patriarch of Jerusalem opened the gates of the city, under the condition that the Caliph himself came to the gates...such was the Caliph's standing in even the Christian world.

Alternatively, when the crusaders captured Jerusalem in 1099, muslims, jews, and amazingly even fellow Christians were slaughtered in their thousands by the crusaders.

Then when Salah Al-Din re-captured Jerusalem from the crusaders...all the Christians were allowed to leave with their lives.

Even in South America, when the Conquisitors spread Christianity by the sword...they wiped out whole civilisations. Aztecs, Omnecs, Maya's...all great civilisations which today no longer exist except in the history books.

Are you noticing a pattern here. Whenever muslims conquered lands...there was peace, tolerance, and co-existance. Whenever Christianity conquered lands, there was suffering, death, and persecution.

Christianity, Judism, Hindus, Buddhists...all religons that survived the Islamic revolution...and without fail, all these religons and their cultures actually benefited from Islamic rule.

I challenge you to name one...just one religon that survived the catholic purge.

And the biggest victims of catholicism...was ironically Europe and Catholics themselves, who lived more then a millenia under the tyranny of the pope and his bishops, and only when Europe managed to wrestle itself from this tyranical rule (ironically with help from the muslims via Al-Andalus)...did the reformation begin.

When Islam was at its strongest, muslim countries were at the peak of there civilisation, and minority religons flourished and allowed to practise there religons.

When catholicism was at its strongest, Christian countries were living in huts by rivers bathing in their own poo, and all existing religons were literally wiped out.

When Islam declined, muslim nations declined.

When catholicsm declined...Christian nations rose. Really says it all doesn't it.

soren,
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I guess in the grand scale of things, 1200 years is not that long, but compared to how long it was Christian, it's more than double. Yet you have no problem claiming it's a Christian land. Just another example of your hypocritical double standards.

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Right... not like the Christian lands, where the pagans and barbarians just ran stupidly under the swords of the Christian conquerors.. ahem I mean proselytisers, and therefore their genocide was their own fault. And of course the Christians tried everything in their power to stop those stupid pagans running into their swords didn't they? Or were their warriors all hiding behind them? Early occurence of 'collateral damage' and 'human shields' was it?

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No doubt it's a valuable supplementary source, but if it's your primary/sole source, then arguing with you gets a little boring, to say the least.

Yadda,

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It has been a Muslim land for more than twice as long as it was ever a Christian land. Perhaps it's a Phoenician land? Perhaps we can bring the Punic descendants of the Phoenicians from Tunisia, and they can take it back?

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If you'd like to admit all Christian lands outside of Palestine are 'captured war booty' also, as that's where Christianity originated from. and it's well known historical fact that the Christian conquests of Europe and the New World were the bloodiest religious conquests in the history of mankind. Lestat already detailed some of them, and I've already written entire posts before detailing them for the benefit of soren (not that it actually did benefit him).

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Indonesia, the country with the largest Muslim population in the world, became Muslim quite peacefully, through the influence of trade.

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Actually the Byzantine armies marched towards Arabia, the Islamic move into the Levant was purely defensive. The tiny little defenseless desert state had no choice but to try and defend itself, and miraculously it conquered two superpowers of the world within a very short period.

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You'd like to believe that. The Islamic liberation of Europe was halted by the misjudgement and suspicions of the Caliph who called the two leading commanders of the Muslim liberation force (Tariq Bin Ziyad, and Musa Bin Nusayr (May God be well pleased with them)) back to the capital in Damascus. If not for this error in judgement, you'd be Muslim today so thank Suleyman Bin Abdul Malik, not Charles Bartel.

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At least Christians were actually permitted to be there in the first place to be able to be mistreated. Any 'Saracen' caught inside the Christian lands of Europe was instantly murdered. That's why Europeans never mistreated Muslims, they couldn't keep them alive long enough within their borders to get time to mistreat them!!