Australian Politics Forum - Islamic courts

abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: Islamic courts Reply #30 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 7:39pm I'm sorry they're not simple enough for you..
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jordan484

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Re: Islamic courts
Reply #31 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 7:48pm

Is there a one yes/no answer limit per thread? Or is there a one question limit per thread? Or is it just up to your own whim? Have I asked too many questions for one post? Can one ask a rhetorical question? What if an answer creates another question? Can someone other than the person asked answer the question? Can you ask a question about a question? Would it be ok to answer a question with another question? And can you answer that answer question with a question? Do you think question is a funny word? Why do words start to sound weird after you say them a few times over and over? Why does toast always land butter side down? Do you like vegemite now that you're a muslim? Do you wear a dress? And one of those funny little hats? Is there something you'd like to ask me? Do you own a goldfish?

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"We should always say that I may refrain from publishing a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed, but it's because I fear you. Don't for one moment think it's because I respect you." Richard Dawkins

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Lestat

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Re: Islamic courts
Reply #32 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 8:20pm

jordan484 wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 7:48pm:

Is there a one yes/no answer limit per thread? Or is there a one question limit per thread? Or is it just up to your own whim? Have I asked too many questions for one post? Can one ask a rhetorical question? What if an answer creates another question? Can someone other than the person asked answer the question? Can you ask a question about a question? Would it be ok to answer a question with another question? And can you answer that answer question with a question? Do you think question is a funny word? Why do words start to sound weird after you say them a few times over and over? Why does toast always land butter side down? Do you like vegemite now that you're a muslim? Do you wear a dress? And one of those funny little hats? Is there something you'd like to ask me? Do you own a goldfish?

OBSESSION.....

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jordan484 Gold Member Offline Genuine Aussie Posts: 1115	Re: Islamic courts Reply #33 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 8:23pm Déjà vu?
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Lestat Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1403	Re: Islamic courts Reply #34 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 8:33pm jordan484 wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 8:23pm: Déjà vu? Yep..I'm obessed about you being obsessed.
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jordan484 Gold Member Offline Genuine Aussie Posts: 1115	Re: Islamic courts Reply #35 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 8:37pm Yes, it would seem so.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49347 At my desk.	Re: Islamic courts Reply #36 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 8:38pm I think it depends on the quality of the carpet.
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freediver

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Re: Islamic courts
Reply #37 - Jan 31^st, 2009 at 2:31pm

Abu doesn't this contradict your claims in the locked 'common misconceptions' thread where you give the impression that Muslisms and non-Muslims are treated equally under Islamic law?

What is your response to these claims that non-Muslims are not allowed to testify against Muslims?

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1225416753/17#17

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« Last Edit: Jan 31^st, 2009 at 2:36pm by freediver »

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abu_rashid

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Re: Islamic courts
Reply #38 - Jan 31^st, 2009 at 7:26pm

The claim that ahl al-Dhimma cannot give testimony is pretty weak.

They use a claim that an obscure Islamic scholar called al-Muraghi, who I've never heard of, and about whom I was unable to find any information, gave such a ruling. Not from Imam Abu Hanifa, not from Imam ash-Shafi, not from Imam ibn Hanbal, not from Imam Malik, not from any of the thousands of well respected classical Islamic scholars, but from some unknown who apparently gave such a ruling. A ruling which contradicts 1350 years of history, during which ahl al-Dhimma were able to give testimony. Sorry, but there's nothing to respond to, it's quite clearly a farse, like the rest of his anti-Islamic rants.

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freediver

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Re: Islamic courts
Reply #39 - Jan 31^st, 2009 at 7:40pm

So can you clarify the apparent contradiction with the opening posts:

freediver wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 2:40pm:

Is it true that non-Muslims are considered by Islamic law to be inferior witnesses by default when testifying in court?

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 4:09pm:

Yes.

Doesn't this achieve the same end result? Getting up and having your say may feel nice, but if your testimony is considered inferior by default, the impact on your ability to defend your rights is the same as if you were prevented from testifying.

Do you think it is reasonable to say that your 'common misconceptions' thread is deliberately misleading in that it creates the impression that Muslims and non-Muslims are equal before the law?

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« Last Edit: Jan 31^st, 2009 at 7:46pm by freediver »

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49347 At my desk.	Re: Islamic courts Reply #40 - Feb 17^th, 2009 at 2:33pm Abu, you keep insisting in other threads that Muslims and non-Muslims are treated as equals before the law. But you refuse to explain this and only refer people to the common deceptions thread, even though it avoids the issue also. Why is that?
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abu_rashid

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Re: Islamic courts
Reply #41 - Feb 17^th, 2009 at 4:21pm

It doesn't avoid it at all, and neither have I.

The common misconceptions thread deals quite well with the issue of equality before the law. If there's anything specifically in there you're struggling to understand, start a thread about it, and if I'm able, I shall endeavour to clarify it for you. If you just wanna use it as a means to claim deflection, taqiyya etc. then stop wasting my time and yours, and just continue with your whinging (as you'll probably do, no matter what answer you get).

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freediver

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Re: Islamic courts
Reply #42 - Feb 17^th, 2009 at 4:24pm

Thanks for the offer Abu.

freediver wrote on Jan 31^st, 2009 at 7:40pm:

So can you clarify the apparent contradiction with the opening posts:

freediver wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 2:40pm:

Is it true that non-Muslims are considered by Islamic law to be inferior witnesses by default when testifying in court?

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 4:09pm:

Yes.

Doesn't this achieve the same end result? Getting up and having your say may feel nice, but if your testimony is considered inferior by default, the impact on your ability to defend your rights is the same as if you were prevented from testifying.

Do you think it is reasonable to say that your 'common misconceptions' thread is deliberately misleading in that it creates the impression that Muslims and non-Muslims are equal before the law?

Abu, can you explain the apparent contradiction between the common deceptions thread and your post above? I don't see a need to start a new thread, as that is what this thread is about.

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abu_rashid

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Re: Islamic courts
Reply #43 - Feb 17^th, 2009 at 4:51pm

Perhaps I answered prematurely, without consulting Islamic texts to see the facts. Once you brought that to my attention, I've ceased offering my own opinions on such issues, as I fear again, giving a wrong answer.

What's more relevant here is why you'd think the opinion of some [islamically] uneducated person such as myself on an internet forum, would be more authoritative than a proper Islamic scholarly explanation? Do you think the average person such as myself formulates the laws in Islam? As I've conveyed to you a few times already, I mostly just convey to you the opinions of scholars.

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freediver

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Re: Islamic courts
Reply #44 - Feb 17^th, 2009 at 5:12pm

Quote:

Perhaps I answered prematurely, without consulting Islamic texts to see the facts.

Well, did you?

Quote:

Once you brought that to my attention, I've ceased offering my own opinions on such issues, as I fear again, giving a wrong answer.

Surely, if you discover that you ahve mislead someone, or may have mislead someone, the appropriate course of action is to find out whether you mislead them and correct them if necessary? Not simply refuse to answer any more questions.

How about, on seeing that you may have got it wrong, you clarify? Either correct your post, or back it up. All you have done so far is deflect to a strawman argument. You have not clarified whether Islam considers the testimony of non_muslims to be inferior.

Quote:

What's more relevant here is why you'd think the opinion of some [islamically] uneducated person such as myself on an internet forum, would be more authoritative than a proper Islamic scholarly explanation?

False dichotomy. It would be great if you could back up your claims with appropriate references. But references to irrelevant sources are not a substitute for answering simple questions. If you don't know, jsut say so. But don't tell me your common deceptions thread answers a question when it does not.

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