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Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims (Read 12159 times)
abu_rashid
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Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims
Reply #60 - Oct 24th, 2008 at 3:56pm
 

Abrogation occurs when a text is superceded by another because the conditions it addressed no longer exist, or because the circumstances of the people it addressed have changed.

A Creator, who is outside time, knows that people are at different stages and in different conditions at different times and therefore legislates accordingly. "Cut down today, give up tommorrow".

If the Creator were not outside time, then he wouldn't know the circumstances of people at different times  and might just say "Give up today!!".

There is absolutely no contradiction in that at all.

Do Christians not believe the entire OT is abrogated? Anything you claimed above, you should answer for your own book first. Or do you still believe in a man being required to marry a girl if he rapes her, and being forbidden from divorcing her? oh and he must pay her father 50 shekels...

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

50.00 ILS (Israeli Shekels) = 20.4981 AUD, Just checked the exchange rate a few minutes ago, not a bad deal eh?

Surely you can't expect us to believe this judgement came from the Creator? Even if you accept your text is abrogated, can you accept that it's rulings are that of the Creator??? Surely not.
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Soren
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Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims
Reply #61 - Oct 25th, 2008 at 4:53pm
 
Muslims belive, do they not, that the koran has exsited always in heaven, writteen on golden tablets.

It is not seen as a cooperativ eeffort between Mohammed and god, not an inspired book, not a book of a particular place and particular historic unfolding, but as eternal, perfect, unchanging.

So revealing it in stages is one thing, it being a historic record of ohammed's relationship to the arabs and the jews is another. Mohammed 'was revealed' one thing but if that did not work, well, wait, there's more - he was 'revealed' something more approriate to suit the changing fortunes of his career.

How to reconcile the eternal perfectness of the koran and its obvious elements of updating and following the history of Mohammed's political fortunes ? One way is the often remarked utter fatalism of Muslims, the utter lack of freedom in their heads and hearts - there is no free action possible, even for the prophet.

This is the one unmistakable sign of islam's paganism. It has not moved on from the notions of god controlling everything. And so it is also the key to undertanding why islam is a colossal misundertsanding and why it remains forever irreconcilable to judaism andd christianity.

Freedom is anathema to islam and all the other pagans but essential to judaism and christianity. Freedom is the dividing line.
Islam cannot remain islam if it accepts freedom.


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