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No. Just as any group would not have the right to campaign for legislation that is divisive, sexist, racist, unfair, treats people differently, and forces religious beliefs onto others.

Like mozz said, there are plenty of places in the world where you can live under those sorts of conditions, how incredibly selfish of you muslims to want to enforce your belief system here too.

Well I don't entirely agree with your view Grendel, I think Islam has seen the worst and most divisive elements within it take control, and that has seen the general muslim population floundering between the devil and the deep blue sea.

Abu also has raised many relevant points about the appalling behaviour of western governments in how they have reacted to the Islamist terrorists, which has only engendered greater polarisation by their actions.

Unfortunately, the ones at the top, on both sides, seem to be extremists.

You cannot dismiss the actions of Bush, the worst president in US history, as not being highly inflammatory, which has seen the jihadists profile and beliefs, given more credence than they deserve.

The disappointing thing for us westerners is seeing more than half of our western populations roundly denouncing the extremist behaviour of "BOTH" sides, but from the muslim world, we only see condemnation of the west.

We will see a change of president in a few weeks, and with that comes hope of a new direction for the west, but who is there to give hope and leadership for the muslims?

Most of us see that as a very problematic issue which goes back to Islam's basic structure.

words fail me aboo...
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ah no I never did say that.

How would I know you were incapable of answering things if I didn't read your crap?

So once more we have evasion etc, etc, etc...  DWNT

No, I'm opposed to you muslims wanting to legislate muslims beliefs onto non-muslims.

jordan484 wrote on Oct 20^th, 2008 at 11:10am:


Your stupidity is staggering...really I am amazed that Abu would even waste his time with you.

Do you even know who 'legislates' law in Australia. Obviously not, as if you did you wouldn't make such a stupid statement.

It is parliment that legislates law..not muslims, not any other special interest group. People may lobby parliament...however, only parliament (and some court judges) have the right to legislate.

So unless you believe that muslims will shortly by some miracle be voted en mass into parliament, your statement is really silly and once again reflects your ignorance.

lol...you don't even know how your democratic system works. BAWAHAHA...

Go away jordan, really, your beginning to bore us all with your ignorance and stupidity. Go and educate yourself.

Gaybriel wrote on Oct 20^th, 2008 at 12:52pm:


Not really...read his post in its context and in relation to the response from Abu...who already touched on this issue.

He has already been asked in this thread whether muslims have the right to 'campaign' for legislation they'd like implement, of which he said 'no'.

Abu then responded to his post, and hence his quote. Really..it is not nit picking at all, it is once again an example of Jordan allowing his hate to consume him and making stupid remards as a result.

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Yes, that's what I meant.

Thanks gaybriel.

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I did not really interact enough to make a personal value judgement like that about those individuals, but I think you know full well that I was referring to the egocentric claims of being the possessors of the only truth direct from allah, and their treatment of infidels as inferiors is pretty sound reason to consider the muslim mindset as selfish, or egotistical if you prefer.

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An apartheid sth african type word of disrespect.

OK, I will baby step you through it,

apartheid sth african, describing the sth african culture as it was under apartheids hideous racist framework,, ie; promoting division,

so the word of disrespect used by muslims, to describe non-muslims, is not only the same sounding word, but used in the same manner as a racist slur from one of the ugliest racist regimes in modern history, and that is the type of word that muslims choose to use to describe non-muslims.

Are you asserting that it bears no derogatory undertones of the cultural superior attitude of muslims to non-muslims?

I really struggle to think of it as a term of endearment.
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Now standing on a fruit box in hyde park, yelling "come one come all, hear the one true prophet's message", is not what we were talking about, and I have absolutely no doubt that you very well knew that before you posted your disingenuous, evasive, misleading, reply.

Muslims are not happy to merely spread the word, they make no bones about seeing Islam installed , along with Sharia law, united under a new caliphate, in every country they live.

You took offence at the word usurp, for the replacement of a democracy with a theocracy, but if you do not usurp one system of government, how do you propose a completely different type of government be installed?

If you say we will vote for it, then, I will revert back to my previous issue of the muslim propensity for deceiving infidels as being a just and praiseworthy course of action, for not even you could believe that will ever happen in australia, in your lifetime.

Which returns me to my original questions, which you claim to have answered, but you know, you evaded.

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Do you want to have a go, or will you decide to pass?

I have to suppress mirth at the claims of truth made by some, as Jack Nicholson said,
"you can't handle the truth"

The catholics may wish to preach and convert, but if I am not interested, I will not be forced to observe catholic customs, and I find the thought of ring kissing somewhat offputting (no offence to date bandits intended), and I won't see the archbishop and his cronies making the laws of the land.

So to profess that Islam is just like any other religion is misleading, if not deliberately dishonest.