Australian Politics Forum - anti-Islamic extremist websites

Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: anti-Islamic extremist websites Reply #15 - Oct 20^th, 2008 at 1:15pm Obviously photoshopped to make it look bad for Muslims Yadda... ROTFLMAO
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Gaybriel Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1191	Re: anti-Islamic extremist websites Reply #16 - Oct 20^th, 2008 at 1:18pm Grendel wrote on Oct 20^th, 2008 at 1:15pm: Obviously photoshopped to make it look bad for Muslims Yadda... ROTFLMAO you think so? wow - conspiracy theory. more like you've got some people with extreme views taking it to the streets and making themselves look bad.
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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: anti-Islamic extremist websites Reply #17 - Oct 20^th, 2008 at 1:22pm woosh... was I too subtle? ahhhh... some people? and who would these people be? Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Arse Off... yet again
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Yadda

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Re: anti-Islamic extremist websites
Reply #18 - Oct 20^th, 2008 at 1:39pm

Grendel wrote on Oct 20^th, 2008 at 1:15pm:

Obviously photoshopped to make it look bad for Muslims Yadda...

ROTFLMAO

".....Obviously photoshopped to make it look bad for Muslims"

Grendel,

LOL

We have enough trouble getting the TRUTH out, so.....

'Don't encourage them!'

.....with remarks like that!!!

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Gaybriel

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Re: anti-Islamic extremist websites
Reply #19 - Oct 20^th, 2008 at 1:44pm

Grendel wrote on Oct 20^th, 2008 at 1:22pm:

woosh...
was I too subtle? Grin

ahhhh... some people? and who would these people be?

Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Arse Off... yet again

nah dude- I was joking back with you. was I too subtle?

those people would be the ones in the photos holding the signs.

man you must have some chronic abs from all the laughing you do Wink

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Gaybriel Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1191	Re: anti-Islamic extremist websites Reply #20 - Oct 20^th, 2008 at 1:55pm btw Yadda I'm not ignoring your post- I will come back to it
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Yadda

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Re: anti-Islamic extremist websites
Reply #21 - Oct 20^th, 2008 at 1:56pm

Is it so terrible when ppl reveal what ISLAM is 'about', on non-ISLAMIC web sites?

How the Koran counsels muslims.....

NEVER SEEK OUT THE TRUTH FOR YOURSELF, with enquiry

"O ye who believe! ASK NOT QUESTIONS about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. But if ye ask about things when the Qur'an is being revealed, they will be made plain to you, Allah will forgive those: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Forbearing.
SOME PEOPLE BEFORE YOU DID ASK SUCH QUESTIONS, AND ON THAT ACCOUNT LOST THEIR FAITH."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/005.qmt.html#005.101
v. 101 & 102

i.e. Don't listen to non-ISLAMIC web sites....

ALWAYS BELIEVE THE CLERICS, ALWAYS BE OBEDIENT TO 'ALLAH' [i.e. the clerics].

"O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger," [i.e. obey the clerics]
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#047.033

BELIEVE NO ONE,
.....UNLESS HE IS A MUSLIM.

"And believe no one unless he follows your religion.......True guidance is the Guidance of Allah:....He knoweth all things."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/003.qmt.html#003.73

THOSE KUFFAR [non-muslims], ONLY HATE YOU MUSLIMS,

"O ye who believe!
Take not into your intimacy those outside your ranks:
They will not fail to corrupt you.
They only desire your ruin:
Rank hatred has already appeared from their mouths:
What their hearts conceal is far worse.
We have made plain to you the Signs, if ye have wisdom."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/003.qmt.html#003.118

This last Koran verse, sounds like it is INCITING HATRED of 'unbelievers' to me.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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abu_rashid

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Re: anti-Islamic extremist websites
Reply #22 - Oct 20^th, 2008 at 3:17pm

Quote:

Is it so terrible when ppl reveal what ISLAM is 'about', on non-ISLAMIC web sites?

If what they say on their websites is the truth, then why is it they don't put the debates with Muslims on their websites? In which they had their proverbial backsides kicked.

Robert Spencer, the 'man' behind jihadwatch.org has so far run out of two debates with Muslims, after he couldn't prove his points, nor counter their arguments. Why do you think that might be? Did you watch the videos? I'd suggest you do.

Likewise Sam Shamoun of answering-islam.org has been whipped by several leading Muslim debaters, and has fled on several occasions also, unable to hold up the debate. Perhaps you should go and watch some of the videos of these people you consider to be trustworthy, so you can find out just how sincere and authentic they are.

It's one thing to run around madly cutting and pasting stuff from one site to another, but you really should check the calibre of the people you're quoting, because quite rankly if I was a Christian, I'd be pretty ashamed of their abilities to present their arguments against Islam. It's one thing to use quotes out of context on a website, and twist things to your own desires for propaganda purposes, but why don't their ideas and articles stand up to scrutiny in debate? Perhaps because the other side actually has a voice?

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40764 Gender:	Re: anti-Islamic extremist websites Reply #23 - Oct 20^th, 2008 at 3:46pm Abu - yes, the christians should research their topics well. Mind you, you muslims are well drilled. They are probably lazy and don't prepare well. They should learn from a loss (if that happened) and come back prepared.
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Yadda

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Re: anti-Islamic extremist websites
Reply #24 - Oct 20^th, 2008 at 3:50pm

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 20^th, 2008 at 3:17pm:

Quote:

Is it so terrible when ppl reveal what ISLAM is 'about', on non-ISLAMIC web sites?

If what they say on their websites is the truth, then why is it they don't put the debates with Muslims on their websites? In which they had their proverbial backsides kicked.

Robert Spencer, the 'man' behind jihadwatch.org has so far run out of two debates with Muslims, after he couldn't prove his points, nor counter their arguments. Why do you think that might be? Did you watch the videos? I'd suggest you do.

Likewise Sam Shamoun of answering-islam.org has been whipped by several leading Muslim debaters, and has fled on several occasions also, unable to hold up the debate. Perhaps you should go and watch some of the videos of these people you consider to be trustworthy, so you can find out just how sincere and authentic they are.

abu,

I believe you were going to post a link?

But i missed it.

Please post a YOUTUBE link.
....[i'm on dailup, it usually takes +2 hrs for me to d/l a Y/T vid [to my drive], but i will have a look at one.]

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 20^th, 2008 at 3:17pm:

It's one thing to run around madly cutting and pasting stuff from one site to another, but you really should check the calibre of the people you're quoting, because quite rankly if I was a Christian, I'd be pretty ashamed of their abilities to present their arguments against Islam. It's one thing to use quotes out of context on a website, and twist things to your own desires for propaganda purposes, but why don't their ideas and articles stand up to scrutiny in debate? Perhaps because the other side actually has a voice?

abu, this would be a fair point, that you are making.

But i have not seen it demonstrated yet.

Most of the counter-arguments which i have seen presented by muslims, have often seemed very illogical to me.

".......It's one thing to use quotes out of context on a website"

abu,

what is out of context, in this next Koran quote?

"O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust. "
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/005.qmt.html#005.051

It all seems very un-ambiguous to me, and clear what the meaning is.

OR,

"O ye who believe!
Take not into your intimacy those outside your ranks:
They will not fail to corrupt you.
They only desire your ruin:
Rank hatred has already appeared from their mouths:
What their hearts conceal is far worse.
We have made plain to you the Signs, if ye have wisdom."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/003.qmt.html#003.118

Isn't the meaning of this last Koran verse also un-ambiguous, and isn't it actually inciting the hatred of 'unbelievers' ???

It would seem so to me.

But hey, i'm an 'unbeliever' [strike that!].
....I AM, a believer!

But your philosophy, and your Koran, say's that i am accursed by Allah.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Soren

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Re: anti-Islamic extremist websites
Reply #25 - Oct 20^th, 2008 at 4:01pm

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 19^th, 2008 at 11:55pm:

I've noticed lately we have the cut-paste army invading these forums, using primarily two main websites to attack Islam. The biggest culprits are soren and Yadda, just midlessly pasting any anti-Islamic garbage they can manage to fit, into their clipboard buffers, into any argument that has the remotest whiff of Islam in it.

The two main sites they quote from are:

http://www.answering-islam.org
http://www.jihadwatch.org

Now both of these sites are refuted by a few Islamic sites:

http://www.examinethetruth.com
http://www.answering-christianity.org

The interesting thing I've found though, is that the fouders of these websites have actually engaged in live debates with one another, about the topics mentioned in the anti-Islamic websites. Yet only the Islamic sites which refute the Christian sites actually provide the videos. I can't even find any mention of the debates on the Christian sites at all, I wonder why that is? soren, Yadda, why do you think the websites you seem to believe are such a great source of 'islamic knowledge' don't admit to actually engaging in live debates with Muslims? And don't provide the links to the videos? If you search on youtube you can also find them, funnily enough only ever posted by Muslims, didn't find too many Christians posting them... wonder why not guys?

Anyway I'm watching a few of the debates at the moment, and will post some of the interesting ones here.

There must be another soren on this forum.
I quoted the Today in the Religion of Peace thread starters from the New English Review. I also quoted a fair bit from Asia Times columnist Spengler. And of course I did make use of Groucho Marx, which turned out the most offensive thing of the lot, in some minds.

You do not need 'Islamic knowledge' to criticise or reject or oppose Islam, especially not it's political operatives like you.

I am not aware that anyone here cares or mentions how you care for your soul.

The opposition to Islam is overwhelmingly, if not entirely, on the basis of its political designs.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: anti-Islamic extremist websites Reply #26 - Oct 20^th, 2008 at 4:03pm .
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abu_rashid

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Re: anti-Islamic extremist websites
Reply #27 - Oct 20^th, 2008 at 4:13pm

spint,

Quote:

They are probably lazy and don't prepare well.

check out their websites, they consider themselves the foremost experts on Islam. They've been writing articles about the supposed errors and evils of Islam for years now, would've thought they'd have been able to at least hold their own in a debate with those they're attacking..

Quote:

They should learn from a loss (if that happened) and come back prepared.

They lost several times, and about the only thing they learnt was not to debate Muslims anymore, and certainly not to publicise those debates that have occured. In one debate I watched, the Muslims had to force them the sign the media rights release, because even up until the introduction to the debate, the Christians were refusing to sign an agreement to allow it to be broadcast on the internet. When he called them to account for it on camera though, they had no choice

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abu_rashid

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Re: anti-Islamic extremist websites
Reply #28 - Oct 20^th, 2008 at 4:36pm

Yadda,

Quote:

I believe you were going to post a link?

You can just type Sam Shamoun (the main guy behind answering-islam.org) into youtube, and you'll get the videos of his debates with Muslims. What I want to know though is why he doesn't publish them on his website? Surely if he's holding the truth and propagating it, then shouldn't he have a big menu on the side for "Lectures" where you could click to see all his debates against Muslims, where he showed them up? Not even a mention that he's engaged in such debates... answering-christianity.org and www.examinethetruth.com have plenty of these videos on their refutation sites. Perhaps you should visit answering-christianity.org because it actually contains refutations of every single article on answering-islam.org Can't hurt to examine the refutation can it? I've looked at both sides.. and I think it's quite obvious who's speaking garbage and who's with the truth. Then again, you're not interested in the truth really are you? You're interested in trashing Islam, only. Your lack of sincerity, is what prevents you from advancing beyond a cut-paste drone.

This is the debate I have watched so far, called "Is Islam a religion of peace":

Shamoun actually ran off from this debate I think.

Quote:

Most of the counter-arguments which i have seen presented by muslims, have often seemed very illogical to me.

Have you visited answering-christianity.org ?
If so, can you link to a specific refutation you think is illogical?

Quote:

what is out of context, in this next Koran quote?

Nothing, what's wrong with the quote? It's advising Muslims not to take Jews and Christians as trusted protectors over them, and if we look in the world today we can surely see why. Btw it doesn't say 'friends' at all, that's a mistranslation. The word used is awliya, which means guardian or trusted protector, it's never used in the Arabic language as we'd use friend or mate in English.

Quote:

Isn't the meaning of this last Koran verse also un-ambiguous, and isn't it actually inciting the hatred of 'unbelievers' ???

Why don't we read the next few verses and see?

Ah!ye are those who love them, but they love you not,- though ye believe in the whole of the Book. When they meet you, they say, "We believe": But when they are alone, they bite off the very tips of their fingers at you in their rage. Say: "Perish in you rage; Allah knoweth well all the secrets of the heart."
If aught that is good befalls you, it grieves them; but if some misfortune overtakes you, they rejoice at it. But if ye are constant and do right, not the least harm will their cunning do to you; for Allah Compasseth round about all that they do.

Also note that these verses are speaking about a very special class of people, not just "All unbelievers". It refers to the Munafiqoon, those who publically professed Islam, but secretly, they used to plot and plan against the Muslims with the idol-worshippers.. That's why it says when they meet you they say "We believe".

Also it states a people whom the Muslims love them... So the idea it's about hating is just ridiculous.

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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: anti-Islamic extremist websites Reply #29 - Oct 20^th, 2008 at 4:39pm Quote: There must be another soren on this forum. If I have misjudged you soren I'm sorry. I thought I saw you posting some nonsense from jihadwatch.org somewhere. Perhaps it was just all your incessant ranting about Dhimmitude that threw me off. Again, my apologies for making such a false charge.
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