Well Abu, different people are impressed by different things.
I remember watching a google video about Islam's scientific wonders of the koran, it sounded interesting, but I got more than I hoped for.

I will paraphrase, I don't remember word for word, but the gist was;
"in the book, when westerners still believed the world was flat, mohammed revealed,(some arab talk), that the world is like an egg.
Now an egg is round, like the world, but it is not just round, it has a specific shape, and in ancient arabic the word for egg, actually meant the egg of the 'some specific bird' and this egg has exactly the same shape as the earth, so more inches to allan,(insh allah gay allan) god is great, and that proves the truth of the koran.

I did not know whether to laugh or cry, at such boastful ignorance, so I laughed, it is more fun.

So crap on about anti-Islam sites, and tell me how many live beheadings you have seen on them?

Oh, was that the islamists, anti-western sites doing that?

How disgusting of me to confuse them when they are so similiar.

Off Topic?

I was talking about pro-islamic sites being at least as bad as any anti-islamic sites.

You know that I am no fan of the anti-islamic sites, because they are usually run by wacko extremist evangelicals, who I think are just as bad as Islamists.

So anti-Islamic sites incite hatred of Muslims.
Islamic sites are just anti-everything not Islamic... 

O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which if made plain to you, may cause you trouble...  Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith." (Quran. 5:101-102)

Islam, keeping it simple, for the simple.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/book.htm

This guy really sticks the boot in.

mozzaok, why is it so hard for you to just to create a new thread, with those issues you seem to want to discuss, in it?

Don't worry, I'm sure most of us will join you, just have the common courtesy not to keep taking this thread off topic.

jordan484 wrote on Oct 20^th, 2008 at 12:29pm:


criticised yes. bashed no.

there's a difference.

I have no problem with people criticising religion- but making random statements of ridicule or abuse will not be tolerated.

I made this comment with particular reference to the lack of context or relevance of mozzaok's comments

if mozza explains some kind of relevance the comments will stay

Gaybriel wrote on Oct 20^th, 2008 at 11:17am:




Gaybriel,

For instance, take the site,

http://www.jihadwatch.org




It may be your opinion Gaybriel, that JW is inciting hatred against ISLAM / muslims.

Speaking of the comments allowed by JW, yes, some of those comments are rough.

But i say, good on JW for allowing ppl to expresses their views, and 'responses' to ISLAM, and responses to the actions of ppl who declare that they are Lovers of Sharia [i.e. devout muslims].

But i can't say that i have ever seen even one JW contributor [author], inciting hatred against ISLAM / muslims, in their pieces.
....but if it can be proved that they have, i would condemn such a stance.

To me, Robert Spencer and his crew, seem to just be shining a light on what ISLAMISTS are doing, and telling the TRUTH.

And explaining to anyone who will listen, what the ISLAMISTS motivation is, for their hatred, and violence, against non-muslims.
.....as being explained by, and cited within ISLAMIC texts, and [the hatred, and violence] being justified by ppl who claim to be devout muslims.



And clearly, muslims do not like this type of exposure, and they call it 'inciting hatred'.

Can TRUTH, ever be described as hatred???

Or is TRUTH just TRUTH, which some ppl on occasion would wish, that it remain hidden, or gagged.


Freedom of speech must be sacrosanct.

In a free society, two *free men* can agree to disagree.

But, if one of those men has the power, to silence the other, HE is [he becomes] the master of that other man.

He then determines the rights of that 2nd person.

If this circumstance is enshrined in law, such a society, enshrines a political apartheid.

A society, where some have rights and others have none.

And this is the circumstance TODAY, in *ALL* Sharia jurisdictions  [i.e. a political apartheid].

Within a Sharia jurisdictions all muslims are equal [this is the 'justice', which muslims speak of], but under Sharia all non-muslims are 'guilty' and inferior [and are not equal beside a muslim, under law].

Yet, not one single muslim cleric will acknowledge that Sharia is unjust, in that Sharia imposes a political apartheid, favouring muslims, and which is oppressive to any and all [both non-muslim and muslim], who are  deemed  un-ISLAMIC.








+++++


Gaybriel wrote on Oct 20^th, 2008 at 11:17am:




Gaybriel,

I don't think that a site like JW is impartial, but i do believe that much of what they are revealing about ISLAM, is clearly TRUE.




What disturbs me about the whole issue, is that many, supposedly, moderate muslims will claim that 'radicalised' muslims [those advocating violence], are not pure, or true, muslims.

But, instead of trying to convince non-muslims of the virtue of ISLAM, why don't the pure, or true muslims, try to convince the 'radicalised' muslims, of their error, and their misunderstanding of virtuous, peaceful, ISLAMIC principles ???

This self criticism within ISLAM never occurs.

Why?

Because all such discussions are regarded as 'haram' [forbidden].

Why?

Because all devout muslims already know that ISALM is Allah's perfect religion.
....and to suggest otherwise is fatal [i mean....ppl will kill you for your apostasy].


EXAMPLE....

May 14, 2008
Afghan teacher shot dead after speech condemning suicide bombings
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/021017.php
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/05/14/asia/AS-GEN-Afghan-Teacher-Killed.php




Instead, ISLAM promotes its tried and 'true' doctrines....


Teaching muslim children, ISLAMIC values [London],



Voting is kufr -- unbeliefi