Australian Politics Forum - US pilot told to shoot down UFO

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US pilot told to shoot down UFO
Oct 20^th, 2008 at 9:30pm

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US pilot told to shoot down UFO

An American jet fighter pilot has spoken of they day he was scrambled to try to shoot down a UFO in British airspace more than 50 years ago.

Lieutenant Milton Torres was based in Britain on May 20, 1957 when he received the order: get up there, arm all weapons and fire on sight.

He climbed into his Sabre jet, took off from a Royal Air Force base in Kent and headed east, spotting on his radar the blip that his superiors had judged to be hostile and probably Russian .

The dot indicated an object about the size of a B52 bomber about 24km away and Torres set a course, rockets at the ready, to catch it.

But the aircraft vanished. The blip on the radar was gone too.

Torres has finally spoken of his top secret mission following the declassification of Ministry of Defence files, cited by The Times newspaper, that relate to reported incidents of unidentified flying objects in British airspace.

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tallowood

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Re: US pilot told to shoot down UFO
Reply #1 - Oct 20^th, 2008 at 9:54pm

It was MiG-21Mbis

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Different shaped Ye-2A and Ye-5 prototypes were flown in 1956 and the last (Ye-5) cleared the road for the final Ye-6 prototype witch flew in 1957. More than 11.000 MiG-21's in different versions were build.

They were heaps faster then contemporary USA interceptors but fairly short range. That one probably flew from East Germany.

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easel

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Re: US pilot told to shoot down UFO
Reply #2 - Oct 20^th, 2008 at 10:18pm

Of this you are certain tallowood?

Source? Or is it first hand knowledge?

Not saying I disbelieve you, but source that tidbit if you want to be taken seriously.

Also, I don't think the good old MiG-21 is as big as a B52. Nor do I think radar jamming of the sophistication to fool radar in to thinking it was a B52 would be available in the 50's.

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Kytro Gold Member Offline Blasphemy: a victimless crime Posts: 3409 Adelaide Gender:	Re: US pilot told to shoot down UFO Reply #3 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 3:39pm A more recent sighting... http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/ufos/article1836403.ece
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tallowood

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Re: US pilot told to shoot down UFO
Reply #4 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 4:22pm

easel wrote on Oct 20^th, 2008 at 10:18pm:

Of this you are certain tallowood?

Source? Or is it first hand knowledge?

Not saying I disbelieve you, but source that tidbit if you want to be taken seriously.

Also, I don't think the good old MiG-21 is as big as a B52. Nor do I think radar jamming of the sophistication to fool radar in to thinking it was a B52 would be available in the 50's.

Yes.
"Lieutenant Milton Torres was based in Britain on May 20, 1957 "
"last (Ye-5) cleared the road for the final Ye-6 prototype witch flew in 1957"

"Nor do I think radar jamming of the sophistication to fool radar in to thinking it was a B52 would be available in the 50's"
"spotting on his radar the blip that his superiors had judged to be hostile and probably Russian".

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easel Gold Member Offline Posts: 3120	Re: US pilot told to shoot down UFO Reply #5 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 5:04pm Tallowood, a MiG21 is going to have a vastly different radar signature to a bomber of any description, based on the size of the signal bounced back. Therefore, I would highly doubt this ping would be a 21. It was reading something much larger.
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tallowood

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Re: US pilot told to shoot down UFO
Reply #6 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 5:10pm

easel wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 5:04pm:

Tallowood, a MiG21 is going to have a vastly different radar signature to a bomber of any description, based on the size of the signal bounced back. Therefore, I would highly doubt this ping would be a 21. It was reading something much larger.

Didn't you say yourself that in 50s they did not have technology like today?

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easel

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Re: US pilot told to shoot down UFO
Reply #7 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 7:45pm

tallowood wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 5:10pm:

easel wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 5:04pm:

Tallowood, a MiG21 is going to have a vastly different radar signature to a bomber of any description, based on the size of the signal bounced back. Therefore, I would highly doubt this ping would be a 21. It was reading something much larger.

Didn't you say yourself that in 50s they did not have technology like today?

Yes, they did not have the technology to make a house sized object appear pea sized on radar, they did not have the technology to make 50 objects appear on radar screens which appear to be large bombers, when there is actually only one bomber in the area.

If something appeared on a radar screen in the 50's that appeared bomber sized, it generally was bomber sized.

Also, who in their right mind would want to make something like a MiG21 have a LARGER radar signature?

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tallowood

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Re: US pilot told to shoot down UFO
Reply #8 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 10:16pm

easel wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 7:45pm:

tallowood wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 5:10pm:

easel wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 5:04pm:

Tallowood, a MiG21 is going to have a vastly different radar signature to a bomber of any description, based on the size of the signal bounced back. Therefore, I would highly doubt this ping would be a 21. It was reading something much larger.

Didn't you say yourself that in 50s they did not have technology like today?

Yes, they did not have the technology to make a house sized object appear pea sized on radar, they did not have the technology to make 50 objects appear on radar screens which appear to be large bombers, when there is actually only one bomber in the area.

If something appeared on a radar screen in the 50's that appeared bomber sized, it generally was bomber sized.

Also, who in their right mind would want to make something like a MiG21 have a LARGER radar signature?

Yes, they did not have the technology to make a house fly. Yes, they did not have the technology to make 50 houses fly.

If something appeared on a radar screen in the 50's that appeared bomber sized, it generally was bomber sized or super fast MIG21.

who in their right mind would want to make something like a MiG21 have a LARGER radar signature? the radar operators of course. I reckon they even were able to see lucy in the sky with a diamond, they had that technology for sure but because it was before Beatles time they simply called it ufo Cool

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easel

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Re: US pilot told to shoot down UFO
Reply #9 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 11:56pm

Tallowood, I shall explain this as clearly as I can.

These days there is technology through pure design and not electronics which can reduce a radar signature from the size of the plane to the size of a marble. There is electronic technology that can make it appear as though there are 50 returns on a radar screen of varying sizes, moving around doing their thing, when there is only one true object there.

I don't know what else to say?

Where are you getting your information that a super fast MiG21 will appear as a bomber on a radar screen?

Whilst not being at all clued in on the intricate details of modern radar, or even outdated radar, I can honestly tell you I have been within 1m, in fact, I have been in a radar room containing the most advanced military radar systems available that were switched on and operational of a foreign military super power. This was 3-4 years ago.

Whilst this does not give me any credibility because I have not much of an idea how it works, I am telling you facts here in regards to what I know radar counter measures CAN do.

Now, once again I am not saying I disbelieve you, but have you ever spoken to a radar operator or do you have experience operating radar yourself, and if either of those are true, can you please tell me how, due to speed, which is slower than the speed of radar, the MiG might appear to be a bomber? Don't break any secrecy laws please, but I am sure that the limitations of radar are public knowledge, considering airports (or is their stuff more transponder based?) and weather stations have radar also.

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tallowood

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Re: US pilot told to shoot down UFO
Reply #10 - Oct 24^th, 2008 at 9:59am

easel wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 11:56pm:

Tallowood, I shall explain this as clearly as I can.

These days there is technology through pure design and not electronics which can reduce a radar signature from the size of the plane to the size of a marble. There is electronic technology that can make it appear as though there are 50 returns on a radar screen of varying sizes, moving around doing their thing, when there is only one true object there.

I don't know what else to say?

Where are you getting your information that a super fast MiG21 will appear as a bomber on a radar screen?

Whilst not being at all clued in on the intricate details of modern radar, or even outdated radar, I can honestly tell you I have been within 1m, in fact, I have been in a radar room containing the most advanced military radar systems available that were switched on and operational of a foreign military super power. This was 3-4 years ago.

Whilst this does not give me any credibility because I have not much of an idea how it works, I am telling you facts here in regards to what I know radar counter measures CAN do.

Now, once again I am not saying I disbelieve you, but have you ever spoken to a radar operator or do you have experience operating radar yourself, and if either of those are true, can you please tell me how, due to speed, which is slower than the speed of radar, the MiG might appear to be a bomber? Don't break any secrecy laws please, but I am sure that the limitations of radar are public knowledge, considering airports (or is their stuff more transponder based?) and weather stations have radar also.

Are you saying now that in 50s they had modern technology?

I’ve seen radars in late 60s and they were not as good as modern radars and I was told then by older radar operators who worked with radars in 50s that 60s radars were much better then 50s radars. That answers the rest of your post as well.

BTW, here is a technical hint for you …tell me difference between screen resolutions of 50s and modern displays?

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easel

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Re: US pilot told to shoot down UFO
Reply #11 - Oct 24^th, 2008 at 2:56pm

I refuse to believe you are being serious tallowood and if you are then I really can't discuss this with you as you can't grasp incredibly simple concepts. I was trying to explain why old radar cannot do what new radar can, and a bomber on old radar would invariably be a bomber and you would not get too many ghost targets.

I don't know about screen resolutions cause I essentially have zero knowledge about radar, modern or retro. I have pretty much written about the entire extent of my radar knowledge here.

When you get a chance please explain to me how a fast, small jet, will appear to be much larger due to its' speed. I am curious to know.

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tallowood

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Re: US pilot told to shoot down UFO
Reply #12 - Oct 24^th, 2008 at 3:39pm

easel wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 2:56pm:

I refuse to believe you are being serious tallowood and if you are then I really can't discuss this with you as you can't grasp incredibly simple concepts. I was trying to explain why old radar cannot do what new radar can, and a bomber on old radar would invariably be a bomber and you would not get too many ghost targets.

I don't know about screen resolutions cause I essentially have zero knowledge about radar, modern or retro. I have pretty much written about the entire extent of my radar knowledge here.

When you get a chance please explain to me how a fast, small jet, will appear to be much larger due to its' speed. I am curious to know.

Easel if you have zero knowledge about radar and never seen old radars in operation then you should study and see. After that I will explain to you why and how. Meantime while you upgrading yourself go and read the article and you will see that US pilot was not told to shoot down a UFO. If it help you to sleep better it probably worth the reading.

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easel Gold Member Offline Posts: 3120	Re: US pilot told to shoot down UFO Reply #13 - Oct 24^th, 2008 at 3:51pm Please tell me where I can see old radars in operation. I have seen old radars, but I have a feeling there are none that are operational. Please tell me how a small fighter can appear to be a large bomber on radar.
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tallowood

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Re: US pilot told to shoot down UFO
Reply #14 - Oct 24^th, 2008 at 4:04pm

easel wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 3:51pm:

Please tell me where I can see old radars in operation. I have seen old radars, but I have a feeling there are none that are operational.

Please tell me how a small fighter can appear to be a large bomber on radar.

They may have some in some military history museum or may be private collection. When you see one you will instantly understand how a small fighter can appear to be a large bomber on old radar screen especially when there are some clouds around or rain or snow.

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