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concubines (Read 35844 times)
freediver
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Re: concubines
Reply #45 - Feb 6th, 2009 at 11:22am
 
Quote:
Islam never said "take sex slaves", it merely said "Out of all the people society now permits to have sex with, we're limiting it to these two".


In other words it permitted sex slaves.

Quote:
You thought wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.


Would you mind explaining it again?

Quote:
This concept is well known within Islam (ijtihad).


What about the closure of the gates of ijtihad? Is that a well known concept?

Quote:
It doesn't establish that rape occured.

Come on Mr. Lawyer...


So this is how you validate your fairytale version of history?
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Re: concubines
Reply #46 - Feb 6th, 2009 at 7:23pm
 
Ten years for 'religious' rapist 
By Daniel Sandford
BBC News home affairs correspondent 

For nearly 18 months Khalisadar denied rape, before pleading guilty
An east London Muslim, who was well known for giving religious talks, has been jailed for 10 years for rape.

Abdul Makim Khalisadar pleaded guilty to raping a 27-year-old woman after forcing his way into her home in 2005.

Scotland Yard was originally examining Khalisadar's links to terrorist Kazi Nurur Rahman but the investigation did not lead to a terror arrest.

But DNA taken when the 26 year old was arrested for downloading child abuse images linked him to the rape.

Religious talks

After denying it for almost a year and a half, Khalisadar admitted raping the woman in Whitechapel, east London, in the early hours of 16 October 2005.

On Monday he was jailed for seven and a half years for the rape and two and a half years for perverting the course of justice, to run consecutively.

Khalisadar is unemployed but used to work as an assistant in a primary school teaching English and Maths.

He also worked with an anti-drug-and-violence project in east London's Brick Lane, and was well known for his religious talks.

Seven of Khalisadar's friends who last month admitted conspiracy to pervert the course of justice were each jailed for 12 months.

Belal Ahmed, 24, Tanbir Ahmed, 24, Mohammed Tahar Hussain, 25, Iqbal Hussain-Ali, 25, Tony Autier, 30, Thouhid Ahmed, 24, and Shaherul Islam Khan, 24 - all from East London - admit lying to the police in formal statements.

They claimed Khalisadar was giving a talk at the East London Mosque at the time of the rape.

TV appeal

The victim's ordeal began at around 0330 as she returned to her home.

She was accosted by Khalisadar who forced his way past her as she opened the door.

"I'm going to rape you," he said twice. She said she was pregnant with twins, which was not true but she was trying to stop the assault.

He forced her to perform a sex act, and threatened to kill her when she tried to escape. He held a knife to her throat, saying: "You love your Daddy."

Traces of his semen were found on the victim's body and clothes. She was also left with bruises on her arms, leg and face.

There was an appeal on the BBC's Crimewatch programme but the assault remained unsolved for almost a year.

DNA swab

In the meantime, Scotland Yard's counter-terrorism command was investigating Khalisadar's connection with Rahman, who was convicted in 2006 of trying to buy Uzi sub-machine guns for use by terrorists.

When Khalisadar was taken to a police station and swabbed for DNA, detectives discovered to their surprise that he was the man being sought for the rape.

At first he insisted the sex was consensual, then he concocted an alibi saying he had been giving a talk on repentance at the mosque that night.

It was the middle of Ramadan, and young men would often meet at the mosque through the night before eating their breakfast ahead of sunrise. His friends supported the alibi, but now admit they lied.

The DNA evidence was overwhelming and there was also technical evidence that his phone was used near the victim's flat at the time of the rape.

Eleven charges of possessing photographs of child abuse are not being proceeded with at present.

Khalisadar later admitted raping the 27-year-old.

He claimed a substance he took to help with fasting during Ramadan had made him “hyper.”

The preacher forced his way into her home as she got back from a night out, the court was told.

He threatened to kill her — even after she claimed to be pregnant with twins to put him off, prosecutor Simon Carr said.

Khalisadar also stole a mobile from the house in Whitechapel, East London.

He was caught by DNA. Judge Timothy King blasted his “hypocrisy”.

Imam got 7½ years for rape and 2½ for conspiring to pervert justice.

Seven members of East London Mosque admitted perverting justice and got 12 months each.

Burka-clad women in the public gallery yelled abuse at the judge — and one screamed that the victim was a prostitute.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7301975.stm

[Now, why would members of the Islamic congregation lie to cover up the rape? Could you imagine convincing seven members of your local church to lie about you breaking into someone's house and raping them? Seems weird doesnt it. Until you know this. Rape is part of your holy obligation as a muslim during a jihad. Raping infidels that is.

Because - what the rapist did was in the best tradition of the Prophet. Raping infidels in the dar al Harb, is not only encouraged but required under Islam. So of course they covered it up. Its not real justice anyway, only sharia is - so lying to our legal system is just no big deal there dhimmis'
]
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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
Yadda
 
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Re: concubines
Reply #47 - Feb 6th, 2009 at 7:28pm
 
Kind of strange that they managed to use a meeting at a Mosque as an alibi to escape justice for so long.
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Re: concubines
Reply #48 - Feb 6th, 2009 at 7:46pm
 
Quote:
Could you imagine convincing seven members of your local church to lie about you breaking into someone's house and raping them?


Sure. I could even imagine convincing Bishops to move you to a new parish so you could rape even more little boys undiscovered... happens quite regularly in Christianity actually.

Unlike Christianity, Islam has strict laws regarding raped, and if there were an Islamic Caliphate, such people would find out what real justice is.
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Re: concubines
Reply #49 - Feb 6th, 2009 at 8:07pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Feb 6th, 2009 at 7:46pm:
Sure. I could even imagine convincing Bishops to move you to a new parish so you could rape even more little boys undiscovered... happens quite regularly in Christianity actually.


You know of cases where parishioners were involved in providing alibis for priests, like 7 of them?

Its interesting that you mention Catholicism. It's a new tu quoque reference.

But I will say this - just a little digression - the Catholic church should let priests marry. The real original reason for not letting them marry, was because the Vatican did not like wives getting their hands on church property. That's easily dealt with in the modern age.

I think if you dont let men have sex, they tend to go weird. But Catholic parishes have been ruthless in bringing pedophile priests to justice.

And make no mistake, pedophiles are in all communities. Even Islam. Thats why one of the standing orders for the Taliban is not let young males without facial hair going into the tents of the mujahadeen. Too tempting a target for them to play hide the sausage with it seems.

Quote:
Unlike Christianity, Islam has strict laws regarding raped, and if there were an Islamic Caliphate, such people would find out what real justice is


If they could find four male witnesses to the rape. If not, then they would just stone the women to death for adultery.

Real justice - now that's what I'm talking about right habibi?
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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
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Re: concubines
Reply #50 - Feb 6th, 2009 at 8:09pm
 
freediver wrote on Feb 6th, 2009 at 7:28pm:
Kind of strange that they managed to use a meeting at a Mosque as an alibi to escape justice for so long.


Not really, as I say, what he was doing was in line with Islamic dictates. You can take infidel women as war booty in the house of war. So where's the problem - he was doing what allah wanted, so of course could muslims should protect him from punishment.
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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
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Re: concubines
Reply #51 - Feb 6th, 2009 at 9:42pm
 
Quote:
Unlike Christianity, Islam has strict laws regarding raped


Like who you are allowed to rape?

Quote:
and if there were an Islamic Caliphate, such people would find out what real justice is


Assuming they were convicted of course. From what I've seen of the position of women in Islamic society, I doubt it.
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Re: concubines
Reply #52 - Feb 6th, 2009 at 10:14pm
 
Quote:
You know of cases where parishioners were involved in providing alibis for priests, like 7 of them?


The heads of the churches themselves protected them!! That's far worse.

The entire church hierarchy has been implicated in covering up, protecting and even giving more opportunities to priests to rape and molest their own congregations and their children.

Quote:
Its interesting that you mention Catholicism. It's a new tu quoque reference.


It's not tu quoque because you invited it you goose..

"Could you imagine convincing seven members of your local church to lie about you breaking into someone's house and raping them?"

Quote:
But I will say this - just a little digression - the Catholic church should let priests marry


But this isn't just limited to the Catholic church, it's occured in many other churches also. How about the head of the evangelicals in the U.S who was arrested for taking drugs with and sodomising a male prostutite??

Even in Australia there's been plenty of cases of Anglican priests (who are permitted to marry) molesting kids. Surprised you haven't heard about it? too busy trying to dig up the few rare cases of Muslims committing sex crimes I guess to notice..

Anglican Church considers future of paedophile priest
Police arrest nine men from Australia's Anglican church in connection with child sex abuse scandal
WA: Anglican Church apologises for child sex abuse

Quote:
But Catholic parishes have been ruthless in bringing pedophile priests to justice.


Some would argue they're been more concerned with protecting the rights of the criminals rather than the victims. Even Australian Bishop Anthony Fisher was quoted as saying: "dwelling crankily on old wounds" about victims of paedophilia in the Catholic church. Ruthless indeed, ruthless to the victims.

Quote:
And make no mistake, pedophiles are in all communities. Even Islam.


So you'd like to claim. I don't doubt there's isolated cases, but there's certainly no entrenched culture of paedophilia as there quite clearly is infesting Christian churches. Anyway if you feel up to it, feel free to bring some evidence.

Quote:
Thats why one of the standing orders for the Taliban is not let young males without facial hair going into the tents of the mujahadeen.


Whatever you reckon.

Also if we look at the paedophilia within the Christian churches, we find that it just goes on and on. Every month there's a new scandal somewhere or aanother. Even in the South Australian Anglican church, after OVER 10 YEARS since the first revelations rocked their church, they were still exposing even more paedophilia:

Quote:
ADELAIDE, May 31 AAP - Some key dates in the child sex abuse controversy engulfing
the Anglican Church in Adelaide:

June 7, 1992: Anglican chaplain at St Peter's College leaves Australia for Bali, a
day after admitting to headmaster he indecently assaulted a student.

Mid-1999: Anglican Church youth worker Robert Brandenburg commits suicide on the day
he was to appear in court on child sex offences.

May 22, 2003: Two clergymen, Rev Don Owers and Rev Andrew King, say they have details
of up to 200 cases of alleged child sex abuse within the Anglican Church's Adelaide diocese
over four ...


This practise is endemic in Christianity and there's no denying it, and it doesn't appear to be getting much better. In all likelihood it infests every level of the Christianity hierarchy, from top to bottom.

Quote:
If they could find four male witnesses to the rape. If not, then they would just stone the women to death for adultery


Since 4 male witnesses is also the requirement for an adultery conviction, then she couldn't be convicted of adultery either.
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Re: concubines
Reply #53 - Feb 6th, 2009 at 10:25pm
 
Here's an interesting one regarding the Anglican church, seems even the people they put in charge of getting to the bottom of their infestation of paedophilia himself can't keep his hands off the youngins.

Quote:
Dateline: HOBART, Australia A psychologist who co-authored a report for the Anglican Church about pedophilia within its ranks was jailed for up to two years Thursday for having sex with a 15-year old girl.

The case was a further embarrassment for the Anglican Church which has been under fire in recent months over allegations that clergy and staff at its schools abused children and that senior figures covered up the abuse.

A former Anglican archbishop, Peter Hollingworth, was forced to resign earlier this year as the British queen's representative in Australia over allegations he covered up church abuse in the early 1990s.


Also as mentioned, even the Queen's representative in Australia was part of covering up these abominations. And you are worrying about a few of that Muslim in London's mates providing an alibi for him??
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Re: concubines
Reply #54 - Feb 6th, 2009 at 10:56pm
 
Quote:
Quote:
Thats why one of the standing orders for the Taliban is not let young males without facial hair going into the tents of the mujahadeen.



Quote:
Whatever you reckon.


I posted the orders in another thread you muppet. It was like a week ago.
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Re: concubines
Reply #55 - Feb 10th, 2009 at 11:50am
 
Acid attack on boy who 'refused sex with Muslim cleric'

By Massoud Ansari in Karachi
Last Updated: 9:05PM GMT 07 Feb 2004

On his hospital bed last week, 16-year-old Abid Tanoli sat listless and alone, half of his body covered by burns that all but destroyed both his eyes and left his face horribly disfigured.

The teenager talked, with difficulty, of how his life had been destroyed since the fateful day in June 2002 when he refused to have sex with his teacher at a religious school in Pakistan.

The boy was horrifically injured in an acid attack after he rebuffed the Muslim cleric's sexual advances. Now, he has alarmed Pakistan's powerful religious establishment by pressing charges against his alleged assailants.

A teacher at the school, who cannot be named for legal reasons, and two of his friends are in prison awaiting trial for attempted murder and rape. All three deny the charges. A fourth alleged attacker is still at large.
It is the first such case to be brought against a Muslim cleric and threatens to expose a scandal of sex abuse within Pakistan's secretive Islamic schools.

Abid was blinded and maimed in the assault, which he says came shortly after he rejected sexual demands from the Islamic teacher at a madrassa in a crowded, lower middle-class district of Karachi. "He threatened to ruin me for life," Abid recalled, "but I didn't take him seriously. I just stopped going to the madrassa".

Abid, who was 14 at the time, told neither parents nor friends what had happened because, he said, he was ashamed. A few days later, as he played with his brothers and sister at home, he said that his religious teacher - accompanied by three associates - broke into the house, bolted the door and threw acid over him, screaming: "This should be a lesson for your life."

Abid was taken to a public hospital, where doctors told him that he would be scarred for life.

Lawyers and campaigners against sexual abuse of children say that it is not uncommon in Pakistan, especially in the segregated surroundings of the country's estimated 20,000 religious schools, but cases involving members of the clergy are rarely - if ever - exposed.

"They are either hushed up and sorted out within the confines of school, or parents are pressurised not to report the incident to the media as it would give religion a bad name," said Zia Ahmed Awan, the president of Madadgaar, a joint project of LHRLA (Lawyers for Human Rights and Legal Aid) and Unicef, the United Nations children's fund.

Haroon Tanoli, Abid's father, met strong resistance when he tried to take up his son's case with officials at the school. He says that they offered to help him secure a cash payment from the alleged attackers, provided that he did not involve the police. Since then, he has been threatened with harsh consequences for refusing to back down.

"I despise hypocrites who sport huge beards in the name of religion and hinder the passage of justice in the name of Islam," said Mr Tanoli.

"I had a beard, and all my four sons were studying in a madrassa. However, following this incident, the first thing I did was to pull my children out of the madrassa - and shave off my beard."

Even as Abid was receiving treatment, the religious authorities pressed the hospital to discharge him. Mr Tanoli managed to get him admitted to a different hospital, where he is being treated free, although the family cannot afford an operation to save his sight.

Mr Tanoli refuses to back down, despite being offered one million rupees (£12,000) by the teacher's relations if he withdraws the charges. He has moved to a secret location for his own safety.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/1453786/Acid-attack-on-b...
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Re: concubines
Reply #56 - Feb 12th, 2009 at 4:44pm
 
Fancy a religious leader being able to flaunt his sexual exploitation of children and assault those who reject his advances in front of their family. Fancy being able to round up four co-religionists to help out with the assault. Then the school tries to cover it all up.

Soren weren't you saying something before about cultures that value reputation vs cultures that value justice? In the west churches will expose child abuse because justice is more important than reputation. Which makes it convenient for people like Abu to attack their reputation and pretend it only happens in the west, especially given the extent of imitimidation Muslim clerics can get away with to have their way with children.
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Re: concubines
Reply #57 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 4:51pm
 
Gandalf do you agree with Abu that Islam permits sex with slaves as well as wives?
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Re: concubines
Reply #58 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 4:58pm
 
You answer the question this time, G. Don't you leave FD hanging around waiting.
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Re: concubines
Reply #59 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 5:45pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 4:51pm:
Gandalf do you agree with Abu that Islam permits sex with slaves as well as wives?


no Smiley
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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