Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
female circumcision (Read 4300 times)
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 48830
At my desk.
female circumcision
Oct 21st, 2008 at 4:22pm
 
Following on from these topics:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1215611509/60#60

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1216537027/104#104

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1216537027/6#6

Do Australian Muslims usually circumcise their female infants?

Also, in this thread Malik says it is forbidden:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1214390480/76#76

Is that a Shiit/Sunni thing?
Back to top
 

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: female circumcision
Reply #1 - Oct 21st, 2008 at 9:31pm
 

As you noted, this has been done to death already in 3 other threads (and perhaps more).

Quote:
Do Australian Muslims usually circumcise their female infants?


I've never heard of a single case of it.

Quote:
Also, in this thread Malik says it is forbidden:


It is forbidden to commit the mutilation that's known as FGM. A small incision in the upper labia above the clitoris however is permissible. But that's nothing like the African practise of FGM.

Quote:
Is that a Shiit/Sunni thing?


Female circumcision, in any form, isn't really a huge issue amongst Muslims (of anyy sect) as the vast overwhelming majority of Muslims simple don't practise it and/or have never even heard of it.
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
jordan484
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Genuine Aussie

Posts: 1115
Re: female circumcision
Reply #2 - Oct 22nd, 2008 at 6:43am
 
Quote:
A small incision in the upper labia above the clitoris however is permissible.

Do Muslims in Australia do this?
Back to top
 

"We should always say that I may refrain from publishing a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed, but it's because I fear you. Don't for one moment think it's because I respect you." Richard Dawkins
 
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: female circumcision
Reply #3 - Oct 22nd, 2008 at 6:52am
 

Can you read?

Quote:
Do Australian Muslims usually circumcise their female infants?
Quote:
I've never heard of a single case of it.

Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
jordan484
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Genuine Aussie

Posts: 1115
Re: female circumcision
Reply #4 - Oct 22nd, 2008 at 7:00am
 
Yes, thank you, I can. I thought you may have been referring to what you described as the African practice, and wondered if Muslims in Australia undertook what you said was the permissible procedure.
Back to top
 

"We should always say that I may refrain from publishing a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed, but it's because I fear you. Don't for one moment think it's because I respect you." Richard Dawkins
 
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: female circumcision
Reply #5 - Oct 22nd, 2008 at 7:21am
 

No, I've never heard of any case of any Muslim I know performing any kind at all.

It's simply not a common Muslim practice, as the media would have us believe.
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 48830
At my desk.
Re: female circumcision
Reply #6 - Oct 22nd, 2008 at 10:54am
 
As you noted, this has been done to death already in 3 other threads (and perhaps more).

I also noted that doing a topic to death often leaves me in the dark regarding Islamic law. I would like to be enlightened, even if it is a bit difficult to uncover the truth.

I've never heard of a single case of it.

Is this because Australian law forbids it, or because it is optional under Islam?

It is forbidden to commit the mutilation that's known as FGM. A small incision in the upper labia above the clitoris however is permissible. But that's nothing like the African practise of FGM.

So Malik was mistaken? He should ahve said FGM is forbidden but circumcision is allowed?

Female circumcision, in any form, isn't really a huge issue amongst Muslims (of anyy sect) as the vast overwhelming majority of Muslims simple don't practise it and/or have never even heard of it.

Is this because of western interference?
Back to top
 

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
abu_rashid
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353
Re: female circumcision
Reply #7 - Oct 22nd, 2008 at 11:29am
 

Quote:
I also noted that doing a topic to death often leaves me in the dark regarding Islamic law. I would like to be enlightened, even if it is a bit difficult to uncover the truth.


Probably because 'your truth' is already preconceived, and when you find that we don't corroborate it for you, you walk away feeling unfulfilled, sorry Sad

Quote:
Is this because Australian law forbids it, or because it is optional under Islam?


I'd say because most non-African Muslims simply have no concept of it's practise and therefore simply don't practise it. And since Australia's Muslim community is predominantly not African, that'd probably account for why it's barely heard of here. It may possibly exist, I just never heard of it. So it's certainly not 'usually' done as your initial post asked.

Whether Australian law affects African Muslims in Australia practising I really don't know.

Quote:
So Malik was mistaken? He should ahve said FGM is forbidden but circumcision is allowed?


You'll have to ask him. As has been noted to you on numerous occasions Malik is a Shi'a and the Shi'a have completely different Hadith books and Fiqh (although you seem to doubt this, still). Since circumcision is only ever mentioned in Hadith books, in Shi'a Islam it may well not even exist as a concept.

Quote:
Is this because of western interference?


I doubt it. Most Muslims simply don't practise it. Also the references to it in Islamic texts are rather brief, and only exist in 1 or 2 Hadiths.

Now I'm aware your preconceived idea here is "It's a widespread Muslim practise", and obviously I didn't corroborate that for you, and so you're going to walk away disappointed, but try to be a teeney weeney bit objective if you can.
Back to top
 
abu_rashid  
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 48830
At my desk.
Re: female circumcision
Reply #8 - Oct 22nd, 2008 at 12:20pm
 
Probably because 'your truth' is already preconceived, and when you find that we don't corroborate it for you, you walk away feeling unfulfilled, sorry

No, that's not it. It's because I feel like something was hidden from me through deception. In case you hadn't noticed, when I started discussing these issues I had no idea what Islamic law is. I was upfront about this. I have no idea where you get this 'preconcieved' nonsense from.

I doubt it. Most Muslims simply don't practise it. Also the references to it in Islamic texts are rather brief, and only exist in 1 or 2 Hadiths.

So it's something that is mentioned, but there are no clear laws for or against it?
Back to top
 

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Gaybriel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 1191
Re: female circumcision
Reply #9 - Oct 22nd, 2008 at 12:37pm
 
I believe the only mention of female circumcision is as a practise to be used for hygeine reasons- and that it should not be something that causes pain, discomfort or sexual displeasure for the female.

It is also not obligatory and should be done voluntarily.

FGM- which is entirely different- was practised in Africa before Islam came there.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 48830
At my desk.
Re: female circumcision
Reply #10 - Oct 22nd, 2008 at 1:15pm
 
It is also not obligatory and should be done voluntarily.

At the parent's request?
Back to top
 

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Gaybriel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 1191
Re: female circumcision
Reply #11 - Oct 22nd, 2008 at 4:50pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 22nd, 2008 at 1:15pm:
It is also not obligatory and should be done voluntarily.

At the parent's request?


no at the individual's request. I think- I'm not 100%. I'd have to find the quote about it. I'll see if I can get it.

I think the only way it would be at the parents request is if it were performed like male circumcision when the child is very young. cause essentially it's the same deal- for hygeine and without causing pain or discomfort long term.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 48830
At my desk.
Re: female circumcision
Reply #12 - Oct 22nd, 2008 at 5:09pm
 
I assumed it would only be performed on infants.
Back to top
 

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Gaybriel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 1191
Re: female circumcision
Reply #13 - Oct 22nd, 2008 at 5:23pm
 
http://muslimvillage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=42965&hl=circumcision

http://muslimvillage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=40159&hl=circumcision

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
jordan484
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Genuine Aussie

Posts: 1115
Re: female circumcision
Reply #14 - Oct 22nd, 2008 at 7:01pm
 
Yeah, thanks so much, gaybriel for those unbiased links. You know I came here to get away from that sort of bigotry, bias and hatred, please think twice before bringing it here.
Back to top
 

"We should always say that I may refrain from publishing a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed, but it's because I fear you. Don't for one moment think it's because I respect you." Richard Dawkins
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print