Australian Politics Forum - A Question For Those Against Islam

Yadda

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Re: A Question For Those Against Islam
Reply #30 - Oct 25^th, 2008 at 3:03pm

Grendel wrote on Oct 25^th, 2008 at 1:43am:

rotflmao

you area deluded soul aboo... is it self deception you suffer from.

Grendel,

Muslims keep telling us non-muslims, that ISLAM is peaceful, and that muslims are always upfront, and honest in the portrayal of their faith.

Please, why can't you just accept these assertions as true?
/sarc off

++++

ISLAM IS PEACE - in London
source...
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/018326.php

Yep,

ISLAM IS PEACE-FUL, except when it is not,

Australia,

Mosque violence Tensions boil over after move to replace imam
6/05/2007
A BITTER factional feud within Canberra's Islamic community has erupted into violence with a leading member being punched repeatedly in the grounds of the mosque at Yarralumla.
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/mosque-violence-tensions...

Outspoken Muslim seeks police protection
March 22, 2007
One of Australia's most important Muslim leaders has sought police protection [after he received threats from muslims]......
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/outspoken-muslim-seeks-police-protection/...

ISLAM IS TOLERANT OF OTHER FAITHS, except when it is not,

Islamic boys told of 'evil' Aussies
December 07, 2006
STUDENTS at the Islamic school from which two boys were expelled for desecrating the Bible were shown videos of a banned cleric calling Australian Christians "evil" and non-Muslim schools "sewers".
......a Bible was urinated on, spat on and burnt - during a school camp for boys from years 7 to 10 boys last week.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20885234-2702,00.html

Here a UK muslim **cleric** tells his Christian daughter "...she deserved to die."

Muslim apostates threatened over Christianity
11 Dec 2007
Sofia Allam simply could not believe it. Her kind, loving father.....said she had [in converting to Christianity] brought shame and humiliation on him, that she was now "worse than the muck on their shoes" and she deserved to die.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/12/09/nmuslim109.xml

February 05, 2005
While Christians who turn to Islam are feted, the 200,000 Muslims who turn away are faced with abuse, violence and even murder
....she said,......it was the double standards of her attackers that made her most angry. "[muslims] are such hypocrites, they want us to be tolerant of everything they want, but they are intolerant of everything about us."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article510589.ece

SHARIA JURISDICTIONS ARE ALWAYS TOLERANT AND ACCOMODATING OF NON-MUSLIMS, except when they are not,

Monday June 09, 2008
JORDAN: COURT ANNULS CHRISTIAN CONVERT’S MARRIAGE
"By leaving Islam, ‘apostate’ loses right because he ‘has no creed.’.....
....The North Amman Sharia Court in April dissolved the marriage of Mohammad Abbad, on trial for apostasy, or leaving Islam.
The 40-year-old convert fled Jordan with his wife and two young children in March after another Christian convert’s relatives attacked Abbad’s family in their home and his father demanded custody of Abbad’s children.
Marriage depends on the creed [religion], and the apostate has no creed, a May 22 court document stated, detailing reasons for the April 22 annulment. According to the document, Judge Faysal Khreisat had proven the veracity of [Abbad’s] apostasy."
http://www.compassdirect.org/en/display.php?page=news&lang=en&length=long&idelem...

Egypt Rules Christian Convert Must Remain Legally Muslim
Feb. 03 2008
An Egyptian judge ruled this week in an unprecedented case that a Muslim who converted to Christianity cannot legally change his religious status....
.....Muhammad Hegazy, 25, lost his case on Tuesday when Judge Muhammad Husseini of a court in Cairo said according to sharia, or Islamic law, Islam is the final and most complete religion and therefore Muslims already practice full freedom of religion and cannot convert to an older belief (Christianity or Judaism),
.....The judge didn’t listen to our defense, and we didn’t even have a chance to talk before the court, said Gamel Eid, head of the Arab Network for Human Rights Information (ANHRI) to U.S. Copts Association.
http://www.christianpost.com/article/20080203/egypt-rules-christian-convert-must...

+++++

And these muslims above are all misunderstanding ISLAM,
because we all know that Allah said....

"Let there be no compulsion in religion......."

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html#002.256

When will the true muslims tell them, that these incorrect muslims are not 'properly guided'???

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« Last Edit: Oct 25^th, 2008 at 3:17pm by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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locutius Gold Member Offline You can't fight in here! It's the War Room Posts: 1817 Queensland Gender:	Re: A Question For Those Against Islam Reply #31 - Oct 25^th, 2008 at 9:38pm Gaybriel? Have you abandoned your own topic?
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Gaybriel Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1191	Re: A Question For Those Against Islam Reply #32 - Oct 25^th, 2008 at 11:19pm no hon- sorry. I haven't had time to reply properly to people so I thought I'd hold off until I could give a thought out response. sorry I should have posted before and said that
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Gaybriel

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Re: A Question For Those Against Islam
Reply #33 - Oct 27^th, 2008 at 11:26pm

locutius wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 11:47am:

Straight or complete answers have not always been forth coming. I have learnt a lot about Muslim beliefs since visiting this forum. I am honest in saying that in some cases the benefit of the doubt that I had previously extended was misplaced. For example, reading posts over the past few months led me to a suspicion that something like Muslim Etiquette existed just in the sort of verbal manouverings that were taking place, and in the complete lack of Muslim self criticism. Then about a week ago we have an admission that it not only exists as a matter of fellowship but that it is a matter of doctrine. This is the sort of corruptive honor system that exists in secret societies.

I think it's unwise to develop an impression of Islam from an internet forum with only 3 resident muslims - a forum within which there are many grievances. it's not the most productive atmosphere to learn about islam

Quote:

I have no problem with them believing that personally. I will show them respect as human beings, as I give all strangers benefit of the doubt.

good stuff

Quote:

They should not insist that I need to, as a matter of tolerence, respect what I consider a delusion.

I think there are various kinds of respect- it doesn't mean you have to agree or be completely un-critical. I think you can be critical and still respect people.

Quote:

Especially when I as a nonbeliever fall into the lowest category of humanity, that are prejudged to be lesser in their society and their legal system. That my lack of ethics and honesty are automatically prejudged. That I will not be treated as an equal, and in fact my life and safety are at greater threat and that some acts of violence against me are excusable and sanctioned against me a nonbeliever, where restraint or pardon may be accorded to the faithful.

I do agree that this is a massive downfall of many religious people- to look down on others. but then again, I think most people who subscribe to a belief (even if it's having no particular beliefs) do this also. for example your belief that religious people are delusional- that reads as you believing you are superior in some way to them.

do you believe that acts of violence against you are permitted by Islam because you're not muslim?

Quote:

As to world domination. My understanding of world history suggests that it has been attempted in the past and that the Military Missionary is an accepted part of spreading the faith. Read about the absorbed tribes and cultures of Islam. Islam is not unique in that regard. They took their turn like many world powers/forces. Just don't try to sell me a different story.

yes they did

Quote:

In many ways I see it as a draconian belief system that free thinkers and those that believe in democracy etc need to be wary of. And guard against a growing influence into systems (democracy) that will not benefit from the lifestyle they (Muslims) have chosen for themselves.

I must say I'm not a huge fan of religion and state mixing

Quote:

I believe in consiracies of greed and power. That the rich and powerful will ally themselves with whoever can help increase those two forces, regardless of ideology. I don't believe that Muslims are immune to the attraction to those things. That claiming that ones that are attracted are not really Muslim is just a cope out, when that same defence is not allowed for other groups.

as long as you're consistent Tongue

Quote:

The constant and stupid attacks against atheists as a group are bewildering as there IS NO identifiable atheist group to speak of. The accusations that atheists are less ethical or less moral are absurd. And reflect the self affirming world denying doctrinal dribble that the religious preach to themselves. In many way the atheist is the most ethical. His/her good behaviour in this world, in this life to others around them and to future generations IS NOT BASED ON A TRANSACTION of salvation.

not sure what this was in response to. but I agree aetheists should not be attacked. I think people should be more concerned with their own lives and actions- rather than those of others.

if someone is truly religious they will leave it to god to judge others- and in the meantime should treat everyone with equal respect as human beings

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freediver

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Re: A Question For Those Against Islam
Reply #34 - Oct 28^th, 2008 at 8:23am

I do agree that this is a massive downfall of many religious people- to look down on others.

In the case of Islam, it's not a downfall of some of the people, it's part of doctrine. That makes it an entriely different beast.

do you believe that acts of violence against you are permitted by Islam because you're not muslim?

Islam does permit a lot of violence against non-muslims. Terrorism seems to be ruled out, but there is enough ambiguity to prevent Muslims from stopping the terrorists.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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locutius

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Re: A Question For Those Against Islam
Reply #35 - Oct 28^th, 2008 at 4:01pm

Gaybriel wrote on Oct 27^th, 2008 at 11:26pm:

Quote:

Especially when I as a nonbeliever fall into the lowest category of humanity, that are prejudged to be lesser in their society and their legal system. That my lack of ethics and honesty are automatically prejudged. That I will not be treated as an equal, and in fact my life and safety are at greater threat and that some acts of violence against me are excusable and sanctioned against me a nonbeliever, where restraint or pardon may be accorded to the faithful.

I do agree that this is a massive downfall of many religious people- to look down on others. but then again, I think most people who subscribe to a belief (even if it's having no particular beliefs) do this also. for example your belief that religious people are delusional- that reads as you believing you are superior in some way to them.

do you believe that acts of violence against you are permitted by Islam because you're not muslim?

Yes definitely, in a society or State that they were in control of.

[url]

http://islam-watch.org/Others/bill-warner-know-thy-enemy.htm

[/url]
Quote:

Let’s examine the ethical basis of our civilization. All of our politics and ethics are based upon a unitary ethic that is best formulated in the Golden Rule:

Treat others as you would be treated.

The basis of this rule is the recognition that at one level, we are all the same. We are not all equal. Any game of sports will show that we do not have equal abilities. But everyone wants to be treated as a human being. In particular, we all want to be equal under the law and be treated as social equals. On the basis of the Golden Rule—the equality of human beings—we have created democracy, ended slavery and treat women and men as political equals. So the Golden Rule is a unitary ethic. All people are to be treated the same. All religions have some version of the Golden Rule except Islam.

FP: So how is Islam different in this context?

Warner: The term “human being” has no meaning inside of Islam. There is no such thing as humanity, only the duality of the believer and unbeliever. Look at the ethical statements found in the Hadith. A Muslim should not lie, cheat, kill or steal from other Muslims. But a Muslim may lie, deceive or kill an unbeliever if it advances Islam.

There is no such thing as a universal statement of ethics in Islam. Muslims are to be treated one way and unbelievers another way. The closest Islam comes to a universal statement of ethics is that the entire world must submit to Islam. After Mohammed became a prophet, he never treated an unbeliever the same as a Muslim. Islam denies the truth of the Golden Rule....................................................................

The dualism of Islam is more deceitful and offers two choices on how to treat the unbeliever. The unbeliever can be treated nicely, in the same way a farmer treats his cattle well. So Islam can be “nice”, but in no case is the unbeliever a “brother” or a friend.

In fact, there are some 14 verses of the Koran that are emphatic—a Muslim is never a friend to the unbeliever. A Muslim may be “friendly,” but he is never an actual friend. And the degree to which a Muslim is actually a true friend is the degree to which he is not a Muslim, but a hypocrite

.

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I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives.

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Lestat

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Re: A Question For Those Against Islam
Reply #36 - Oct 28^th, 2008 at 9:16pm

Locuitus...do you think you could have found a more biased site. Really, using a site like this really does not do your credibility any favours.

I am muslim..I have many friends who are non-muslim. In fact most of my friends are non-muslims. My in-laws are non-muslims and we are on friendly terms. I am living proof that this website is nothing but anti-Islamic lies, spreading hate, and you it seems have been far to willing to fall for it. I am muslim, I practise my religon, and I have non-muslim friends.

The Quran does not forbid me to have non-muslim friends, and that site not surprisingly is deliberately misleading in order to create the perception that muslims are the enemy and are a threat....and you've swallowed it hook line and sinker.

Here's a novel idea, how bout when researching Islam you actually go to a muslim site. Is that to much to ask.

I'm surprised...it appears that by posting this you have accepted it to be truth without a second consideration....

To be honest...I expected a bit better from you.

Actually, come to think of it, disregard what I have said, believe what you will, nothing I say will change your mind, and obviously if you so willing to trust what is said on such a site...then you've already made up your mind.

Just don't pretend to be what you are not...deal?

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locutius

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Re: A Question For Those Against Islam
Reply #37 - Oct 29^th, 2008 at 11:42am

Lestat wrote on Oct 28^th, 2008 at 9:16pm:

Locuitus...do you think you could have found a more biased site. Really, using a site like this really does not do your credibility any favours.

I am muslim..I have many friends who are non-muslim. In fact most of my friends are non-muslims. My in-laws are non-muslims and we are on friendly terms. I am living proof that this website is nothing but anti-Islamic lies, spreading hate, and you it seems have been far to willing to fall for it. I am muslim, I practise my religon, and I have non-muslim friends.

The Quran does not forbid me to have non-muslim friends, and that site not surprisingly is deliberately misleading in order to create the perception that muslims are the enemy and are a threat....and you've swallowed it hook line and sinker.

Here's a novel idea, how bout when researching Islam you actually go to a muslim site. Is that to much to ask.

I'm surprised...it appears that by posting this you have accepted it to be truth without a second consideration....

To be honest...I expected a bit better from you.

Actually, come to think of it, disregard what I have said, believe what you will, nothing I say will change your mind, and obviously if you so willing to trust what is said on such a site...then you've already made up your mind.

Just don't pretend to be what you are not...deal?

You really are incredibly arrogant Lestat. You just jump into a rant, wind yourself up and make assertions as to someone's ability and desire to pursue what really is the case.

The reference above says that you can be friendly but not a true friend. Maybe you are a hypocrite? I will actually believe that is not the case if what is said IS just a bunch of lies.

I have heard what was being commented on before and did a search for information about where the atheist stands with Islam. The reference does not suit you. Fine.

Correct the misinformation.

Offer to link me to a site that you consider does provide better or fairer information.

Your reply was condescending and rude when the more appropriate action would have been to put me on the right track. If having shown to be mistaken I would gladly recant what I have said. I've done it before on this site.

What exactly am I Lestat? Besides being someone with imperfect knowledge. And someone who takes no offence at being challanged. And someone who seems to get up your nose when they challange you?
I know people that never apologise and never admit that they are wrong. I feel no embarressment that I might be wrong! My only embarressment, that having been shown a better answer or better truth that I would be too stupidly proud to admit it and adopt it.

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I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives.

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40683 Gender:	Re: A Question For Those Against Islam Reply #38 - Oct 29^th, 2008 at 11:59am lestat - despite you givig another belligerant dismissive reply, you have yet again NOT answered the questions. You have asked questions back, sent someone off to do more research and deflected. Hey, he DID do research. And found islam to be deceptive and violent.
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Yadda

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Re: A Question For Those Against Islam
Reply #39 - Oct 29^th, 2008 at 12:32pm

Lestat wrote on Oct 28^th, 2008 at 9:16pm:

Locuitus...do you think you could have found a more biased site. Really, using a site like this really does not do your credibility any favours.

Lestat,

Instead of denigrating a source of information.

Why don't you exclusively address the points being made?

If you can demonstrate that the logic or truth of the points made, are erroneous, you will have made your case.

Quote:

I am muslim..I have many friends who are non-muslim. In fact most of my friends are non-muslims. My in-laws are non-muslims and we are on friendly terms. I am living proof that this website is nothing but anti-Islamic lies, spreading hate, and you it seems have been far to willing to fall for it. I am muslim, I practise my religon, and I have non-muslim friends.

These assertions mean nothing.

They speak nothing of motive.

Please Lestat,

Speaking as a dear friend of many non-muslims [as you claim you are], please explain why ISLAM divides the world into two camps.

And what is the purpose of such a definition / division??

DIVISIONS OF THE WORLD, ACCORDING TO ISLAM

Dar al-Islam = = the house of Islam, house of Peace [those places where Sharia has authority].
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dar_al-Islam#Dar_al-Islam

Dar al-Harb = = "house of war", those countries where Sharia does not rule.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dar_al-Islam#Dar_al-Harb

Harbi = = "one under a declaration of war", a non-muslim, WHO DOES NOT LIVE UNDER MUSLIM RULE.
".........A harbi has no rights, not even the right to live."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harbi

Quote:

The Quran does not forbid me to have non-muslim friends, and that site not surprisingly is deliberately misleading in order to create the perception that muslims are the enemy and are a threat....and you've swallowed it hook line and sinker.

Lestat,

It seems that you are a very, very, un-learned muslim.

Shame on you, you apostate, you Jahiliyya liver you.

You'll never get to Allah's paradise like this!!!
/sarc off

ISLAMIC doctrine teaches that devout muslims should be unmerciful towards the unbelievers, but be compassionate and kind, to each other.

BE STRONG AGAINST UNBELIEVERS

From the Koran....

"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other......"
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/048.qmt.html#048.029

"O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/009.qmt.html#009.073
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/066.qmt.html#066.009

++++

JAHILIYYA

ISLAM demands intolerance of the Jahiliyya [un-ISLAMIC] lifestyle.

N.B. ....FROM AN ISLAMIC SITE,

"THE RIGHT TO JUDGE"
"It is not the function of Islam to compromise with the concepts of Jahiliyya which are current in the world or to co-exist in the same land together with a jahili system........"
by SAYYID QUTB
http://www.islamworld.net/justice.html

"....Jahiliyya is a result of the lack of Sharia law, without which Islam cannot exist;"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahiliyya#Jahiliyya_in_contemporary_society

8888888888888

p.s

Locuitus,

I thought your post above was excellent!

The post, addressing the starkly apparent lack of ethics within ISLAM, and ISLAM's doctrine towards 'unbelievers'.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1224804390/35#35

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« Last Edit: Oct 30^th, 2008 at 8:06am by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40683 Gender:	Re: A Question For Those Against Islam Reply #40 - Oct 29^th, 2008 at 1:02pm yada - wow, that was a very good posting. Get ready for a threatening PM and another deletion.
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mozzaok Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 6741 Melbourne Gender:	Re: A Question For Those Against Islam Reply #41 - Oct 30^th, 2008 at 6:55pm Yes, very informative post Yadda, thanks. As for Gaybriel's valiant attempts to defend the indefensible, I suppose it shows someone who just tries to see the best in people, against all odds. (and evidence )
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Gaybriel

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Re: A Question For Those Against Islam
Reply #42 - Oct 30^th, 2008 at 7:16pm

mozzaok wrote on Oct 30^th, 2008 at 6:55pm:

Yes, very informative post Yadda, thanks.

As for Gaybriel's valiant attempts to defend the indefensible, I suppose it shows someone who just tries to see the best in people, against all odds.
(and evidence Wink

)

I try to take people as they come. I try not to make mass judgements about people or groups of whom I have little to no knowledge.

This does not make me blind to facts. In fact people seem to be blind to my posts when I am critical of muslims- when that happens I get no response from anyone, but as soon as I say anything that tries to encourage a little less generalisation or a little more complexity of thought- apparently I'm an apologist who can't see straight, defends the indefensible, is unable to the critical of muslims etc etc

it's completely ridiculous. just because I don't make massive blanket statements damning muslims and islam doesn't mean that I lack a critical capacity, nor does it mean that I am unable to apply that critical capacity to muslims and islam.

People seem to be unable to distinguish between trying to understand something and completely agreeing with it. Even just recently in the 'australia's first terrorist' thread, I suggested that seeing as there was a WAR going on in the country of the murderers, that perhaps their actions were more politically and patriotically motivated than religiously motivated. Did I say religion played no part? no I did not. Did I excuse the actions of these men? no I did not. I merely had a look at why it was that these people would commit such a heinous crime. Do I think that any of these reasons why would justify such an act? no I do not.

and yet again I was told I was defending killers.

perhaps I'm not the blind one here. Perhaps it may just be that there is such contempt for islam here, that anyone who comes in and refuses to spit upon it and mock it is immediately classified as the enemy. well I refuse to subscribe to the behaviour of so many others on this forum just to satisfy their bizarre kind of intellectual blood lust.

it appears to me that my posts are read with the assumption that anything I'm saying must be excuse making or 'defending the indefensible'. well you can feel free to make that assumption cause all it means is that you will never comprehend even the simplest of my posts due to your own relentless bias.

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locutius

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Re: A Question For Those Against Islam
Reply #43 - Oct 31^st, 2008 at 11:53am

Gaybriel wrote on Oct 30^th, 2008 at 7:16pm:

I try to take people as they come. I try not to make mass judgements about people or groups of whom I have little to no knowledge.

Gaybriel, while mass judgements are often inappropraitely used, they need not be avoided completely, nor do they need to have the same emotional baggage applied to them like terms such as racist or bigot. Of course generalisations can be used as tools by bigots and racists, but like any tool it can be used by the genuinely curious and generous. For instance, if a piece of dogma (political, religious, cultural) is accepted unconditionally by a group, then it is not inappropriate to address or challenge the group. A generalisation about the West that might address the commonality of support for secular democratic principles would be fair. Also, quite correctly, you have chastised certain members for their Western-generalisation. I have not missed that. I try to avoid inappropriate mass judgements.

Gaybriel wrote on Oct 30^th, 2008 at 7:16pm:

This does not make me blind to facts. In fact people seem to be blind to my posts when I am critical of muslims- when that happens I get no response from anyone, but as soon as I say anything that tries to encourage a little less generalisation or a little more complexity of thought- apparently I'm an apologist who can't see straight, defends the indefensible, is unable to the critical of muslims etc etc

There are times when I have thought you have been overly generous and some may have thought you an apologist. You have also been chastised by both identifiable camps here. I believe you have a desire to be fair. So do I. I am just too old to stuff about and will challenge ideas politely and directly. I expect replies to my question and challanges to be the same. I also believe that no subject is taboo. I has kept me in good stead with quality bookshops and made them a fortune.

Gaybriel wrote on Oct 30^th, 2008 at 7:16pm:

it's completely ridiculous. just because I don't make massive blanket statements damning muslims and islam doesn't mean that I lack a critical capacity, nor does it mean that I am unable to apply that critical capacity to muslims and islam.

Is there nothing in their dogma that makes you want to make a mass statement? To make a stand? Pick a side? I have previously said that the find the Muslim concept of international brotherhood, and interest free loans admirable, but I have also said that I find the idea abhorrant, that a young inquirering intelligent person who renounces his/her faith can be legally put to death. Both mass statements about Islam. I also make a mass statement about Islam utimate earthly goal of global domination. I am agast at the thought and would oppose it with a dying breath. I do not believe in peace at any price.

I do believe Islam for instance can inspire a culture/psychology of extremeism because of the inflexibility of the foundation tenets of the perfection of the message, the Koran. The application of this undilutable position while allowing meaningful dialogue does NOT lend itself to meaningful relationships between Muslim and Atheist based on equality.

Gaybriel wrote on Oct 30^th, 2008 at 7:16pm:

People seem to be unable to distinguish between trying to understand something and completely agreeing with it. Even just recently in the 'australia's first terrorist' thread, I suggested that seeing as there was a WAR going on in the country of the murderers, that perhaps their actions were more politically and patriotically motivated than religiously motivated. Did I say religion played no part? no I did not. Did I excuse the actions of these men? no I did not. I merely had a look at why it was that these people would commit such a heinous crime. Do I think that any of these reasons why would justify such an act? no I do not.

Sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't. Sometimes things get heated. Then the pages of tit-for-tat stuff just gets boring.

Gaybriel wrote on Oct 30^th, 2008 at 7:16pm:

perhaps I'm not the blind one here. Perhaps it may just be that there is such contempt for islam here, that anyone who comes in and refuses to spit upon it and mock it is immediately classified as the enemy. well I refuse to subscribe to the behaviour of so many others on this forum just to satisfy their bizarre kind of intellectual blood lust.

No intellectual bloodlust on my behalf. Truthlust yes. Will occasionally go for the throat of stupidity.

Gaybriel wrote on Oct 30^th, 2008 at 7:16pm:

it appears to me that my posts are read with the assumption that anything I'm saying must be excuse making or 'defending the indefensible'. well you can feel free to make that assumption cause all it means is that you will never comprehend even the simplest of my posts due to your own relentless bias.

Not by me. I take each post by you individually. I do think you are a bit of a hippy. Wink

But that's cool. I like hippy chics and hugs from them. Of please tell me you are not on of the boring fire-twerlers. If I ever see another it will be 30 billion years too soon.

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« Last Edit: Nov 4^th, 2008 at 9:49am by locutius »

I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives.

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Gaybriel Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1191	Re: A Question For Those Against Islam Reply #44 - Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 9:33pm peace love and chocolate chip cookies dude nooo I'm not a fire twirler. I can barely deal with taking things out of the oven. Not down with the high risk burning behaviour. I will answer the rest another time
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