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what made you become a Muslim? (Read 36670 times)
Sprintcyclist
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Re: what made you become a Muslim?
Reply #45 - Oct 28th, 2008 at 8:56pm
 

that's a poor attitude from a mod.
It's a worse attitude from one who is supposedly trying to convince people his belief system is "good".
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abu_rashid
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Re: what made you become a Muslim?
Reply #46 - Oct 28th, 2008 at 8:59pm
 

The only thing I'm trying to convince you of sprintcyclist is that you're not really welcome in the Islamic forum. Why is it you can't get the hint?

Now scat.
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Lestat
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Re: what made you become a Muslim?
Reply #47 - Oct 28th, 2008 at 9:01pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 28th, 2008 at 8:56pm:
that's a poor attitude from a mod.
It's a worse attitude from one who is supposedly trying to convince people his belief system is "good".


Why would he want to convince a [mod: inappropriate insult]....quite frankly we don't care what you think. No one does...or hadn't you noticed?
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« Last Edit: Oct 29th, 2008 at 8:34am by abu_rashid »  
 
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Grendel
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Re: what made you become a Muslim?
Reply #48 - Oct 28th, 2008 at 10:03pm
 
rotflmao  Grin Grin Grin

Ok...  let me ask you again...

This time try to be correct ok.

A Minister is the leader of a congregation?
A Priest is a person having the authority or power to administer religious rites?

The Islamic equivalents are?

Now please don't try to tell me these don't exist in some form in Islam.

According to your last post there is no formal structure to Islam... Hence Islam cannot exist as a true religion, so it's just some sort of cult?

Oh and no more kevin Rudd stunts where you ask yourself different questions and answer them ok.  hey maybe he's really Muslim.
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abu_rashid
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Re: what made you become a Muslim?
Reply #49 - Oct 28th, 2008 at 10:52pm
 

Quote:
A Minister is the leader of a congregation?
A Priest is a person having the authority or power to administer religious rites?
The Islamic equivalents are?


Ok, and one last time.. There is none. Still not sinking in???

Any Muslim with basic required knowledge can lead a congreation. Any Muslim knowledgeable in the specific rites can administer rites (by this I assume you mean deliver sermons, perform a marriage ceremony and bury the dead??).

Quote:
Now please don't try to tell me these don't exist in some form in Islam.


They don't exist. Sorry.

Quote:
According to your last post there is no formal structure to Islam... Hence Islam cannot exist as a true religion, so it's just some sort of cult?


A religion which focuses intensely on knowledge of each individual has absolutely no need for a priestly class. The structure in Islam is the state, not a priesthood. Who said a religion needs a priesthood to exist? Sounds like your own personal opinion.. as it worked out quite well for about 1350 years.
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Soren
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Re: what made you become a Muslim?
Reply #50 - Oct 28th, 2008 at 11:17pm
 
What's a mullah then?
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Grendel
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Re: what made you become a Muslim?
Reply #51 - Oct 29th, 2008 at 12:25am
 
there you go doing it again...

So any Muslim can be considered a "Priest" or "Minister" then...  no wonder you guys are so confused.

I'd have thought a Mufti or Imam needed some sort of special knowledge or teaching.  After all they imported Hilali.  No one here was good enough.

Or are you not quite telling the truth again?

Isn't a Mufti and Islamic scholar...?  
What is a Grand Mufti?
Isn't it an exclusively Muslim position?

What is an Ayatollah?
A Grand Ayatollah?

Isn't a Hawza a seminary?

ROTFLMAO

What is the Imamah?

Quote:
Main Entry:
   mul·lah Listen to the pronunciation of mullah Listen to the pronunciation of mullah
Pronunciation:
   \ˈmə-lə, ˈmu̇-\
Function:
   noun
Etymology:
   Turkish molla & Persian & Urdu mulla, from Arabic mawlā
Date:
   1613

: an educated Muslim trained in religious law and doctrine and usually holding an official post
— mul·lah·ism Listen to the pronunciation of mullahism \-lə-ˌi-zəm\ noun


oh dear...

Quote:
Main Entry:
   imam Listen to the pronunciation of imam Listen to the pronunciation of imam
Pronunciation:
   \i-ˈmäm, ē-ˈ, -ˈmam\
Function:
   noun
Usage:
   often capitalized
Etymology:
   Arabic imām
Date:
   1613

1 : the prayer leader of a mosque
2 : a Muslim leader of the line of Ali held by Shiites to be the divinely appointed, sinless, infallible successors of Muhammad
3 : any of various rulers that claim descent from Muhammad and exercise spiritual and temporal leadership over a Muslim region


oh dear again

Quote:
Main Entry:
   1muf·ti Listen to the pronunciation of 1mufti
Pronunciation:
   \ˈməf-tē, ˈmu̇f-\
Function:
   noun
Etymology:
   Arabic muftī
Date:
   1586

: a professional jurist who interprets Muslim law


Ahhhh  what sort of Law?   Grin

Quote:
Main Entry:
   ca·liph Listen to the pronunciation of caliph Listen to the pronunciation of caliph
Variant(s):
   also ca·lif Listen to the pronunciation of calif Listen to the pronunciation of calif \ˈkā-ləf, ˈka-ləf\
Function:
   noun
Etymology:
   Middle English caliphe, from Middle French calife, from Arabic khalīfa successor
Date:
   14th century

: a successor of Muhammad as temporal and spiritual head of Islam
—used as a title
— ca·liph·al Listen to the pronunciation of caliphal \-lə-fəl\ adjective


LOL...  now we all know that Islam is a way of life and the Religion incorporates all aspects of life just not the spiritual...  so puhlease no more dissembling.

You supposedly are here as honest brokers to put us right...  so no more dishonesty then eh.i



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« Last Edit: Oct 29th, 2008 at 12:38am by Grendel »  
 
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Grendel
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Re: what made you become a Muslim?
Reply #52 - Oct 29th, 2008 at 12:36am
 
rotflmao

I know next thing you are gonna try the "clerics" in Islam...  oh that's Shia  not Sunni...  

Hmmm  Islam aboo...  that's Islam.

Some churches don't have Priests, or Bishops or Popes...  yet Christians still recognise what is meant and don't say "oh no we don't have them".

Seems to me your credibility has been well and truly
flushed...
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« Last Edit: Oct 29th, 2008 at 9:07am by Grendel »  
 
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locutius
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Re: what made you become a Muslim?
Reply #53 - Oct 29th, 2008 at 1:40pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Oct 28th, 2008 at 4:47pm:
Quote:
Have you by chance misjudged George Bush because you are not him?


Possibly. Although I doubt you really agree that there's much ambiguity about GWB. Do you?


Smiley I think Abu, that we would find far more to agree about GWB than we could find to disagree. I am looking forward to Oliver Stone's new movie " W ".

I do hold Cat Stevens in high regard for his charity work.
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Malik Shakur
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Re: what made you become a Muslim?
Reply #54 - Oct 29th, 2008 at 11:37pm
 
An Imam means leader..


So it can have different contexts..

The person who leads the prayer is an imam.. anyone can really do that providing they know how..


But that doesn't necessarily mean they can be an Imam in a mosque, for that they need to have reached a certain level of understanding of Islam, so that they are able to answer questions, give religious instruction and deliver sermons. They can be known as a sheikh.

A mufti generally is a name that is designated to someone who has a position of authority being to make fatwas.. generally a grand mufti is the highest ranking Islamic Authority in the land and along with the other mufti's consult with the government on religious issues..

In regards to Shia scholars this is generally how it works

Quote:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2098364/
So You Want To Be an Ayatollah
How Shiite clerics earn the name.
By Brendan I. KoernerPosted Tuesday, April 6, 2004, at 6:11 PM ET


Muqtada Sadr, the Shiite cleric whose supporters are attacking U.S. troops in Iraq, has yet to attain the title of ayatollah. According to the New York Times, Sadr is "several ranks and many years away" from earning that honorific. How does a garden variety Shiite cleric become an ayatollah?

Through decades of outstanding scholarship, which in turn inspires the devotion of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of followers. The route to becoming an ayatollah ("sign of God" in Arabic) is quite unlike the path toward becoming, for example, a Catholic bishop. There is no ceremony in which the office is formally bestowed, nor any specific requirements a candidate must fulfill. Rather, clerics who prove their wisdom over years of studying, teaching, writing, and preaching slowly gather the respect of both Shiite elders and everyday practitioners.

A typical ayatollah's career takes him to one of the Shiites' holy cities, like Najaf in Iraq or Qom in Iran. There, he studies at one of the pre-eminent Shiite seminaries, where he is expected to become an expert in theology, jurisprudence, science, and philosophy. After years of distinguished study, he begins delivering lectures of his own, offering unique, insightful interpretations of Islamic texts. He starts to write well-received books on religious topics, and young students seek out his wisdom. Eventually, his fame spreads beyond Islamic academic circles, and many Shiite faithful regard the cleric as a marja' at-taqlid—"a source of emulation." Once the cleric has gathered a critical mass of followers (known as muqallid) and earned the respect of his elderly teachers, he is generally considered an ayatollah.

There are also a small number of grand ayatollahs, such as the Najaf-based Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani, widely known as the most learned Shiite cleric in Iraq, if not the world. The process of bestowing the grand ayatollah title upon a cleric is a bit more formal. It is usually agreed upon by a council of Shiite elders, often connected to one of the primary hawzas, or network of Islamic schools. In 1992, for example, Sistani was selected to head the hawza in Najaf, the holiest of Shiite cities. (It is where Ali, the fourth caliph and the person whom Shiites believe was Mohammed's chosen successor, is entombed.) Sistani is renowned for his expertise in ijtihad, the application of Koranic values to contemporary issues; his Web site includes detailed ruminations on the religious correctness of playing the lottery, taking out a mortgage, and engaging in oral sex.

At just 31 years of age, Sadr is, indeed, nowhere near earning the requisite religious credentials to become an ayatollah. The authority he does have derives mostly from his familial connections, as his father was a respected ayatollah who was murdered by Saddam Hussein in 1999.
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mozzaok
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Re: what made you become a Muslim?
Reply #55 - Oct 30th, 2008 at 4:49am
 
So, am I getting this right, is Islam is more like some cross between Scientology, and the KKK, with their Hierarchical system of authority?

Everything I have read of the teachings, origins, and practices of Islam, has led me further towards the conclusion that it functions like a cult, exerting pressure on those lower down the hierarchical pecking order, to continually "prove" their commitment to the group, while trying to maintain an outward elasticity which defies rigid examination.

So looks like a cult, acts like a cult, Hmmm, glad I didn't step in it.


Looking forward to your intolerance and bigotry, delete away.

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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
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Grendel
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Re: what made you become a Muslim?
Reply #56 - Oct 30th, 2008 at 7:49am
 
I note the word "cleric"  I note that no matter how some deny it there is a "clerical" hierachy in Islam.

As many of us have previously tried to get some Muslim...  any Muslim to admit.

I already made the cult observation Mozz...  not that you'd know... Aboo deleted that comment too.

thank you malik.
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« Last Edit: Oct 30th, 2008 at 8:02am by Grendel »  
 
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mozzaok
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Re: what made you become a Muslim?
Reply #57 - Oct 30th, 2008 at 7:54am
 
Yes, I started a thread about six months ago that identified the traits of a cult, in point form, and Islam managed to tick all the boxes, including the predilections of it's founder.

I would not know where to even look for it now, as threads and posts go all over the place.
I think I called it, Is Islam a cult?
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: what made you become a Muslim?
Reply #58 - Oct 30th, 2008 at 8:10am
 

malik - thanks for giving a straight forward answer.
greatly appreciated.
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Re: what made you become a Muslim?
Reply #59 - Nov 3rd, 2008 at 2:49pm
 
Grendel wrote on Oct 27th, 2008 at 9:28pm:
Well that 2nd guy again gives us no real ideas...  obviously his experience and knowledge is limited if he thinks only Muslims act in particular ways.  

As for the science...  off the top of my head the Bible points out there are holes in the skys and where and black holes were only discovered recently, the vastness in the amount of stars and their individuality, etc, etc, etc...  does the Koran mention them?

No nothing there to hang a change of religion on.


The Koran mentions all scientific discoveries after they have been made:

http://www.jesusandmo.net/2008/05/01/bang/
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