Australian Politics Forum - All Aboard the Athiest bus ..

easel

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Re: All Aboard the Athiest bus ..
Reply #90 - Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 7:09am

I like Live. It's like covert Christian rock. You wouldn't know it was Christian rock unless you listened very closely. Or maybe I am looking too hard?

The Dolphins Cry is a bit out of whack though, way better songs on there that never got in to the Top 40, but then again everyone knows the Top 40 is rigged. There's some good songs on that CD but. Throwing Copper is a classic album by them.

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I am from a foreign government. This is not a joke. I am authorised to investigate state and federal bodies including ASIO.

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Soren

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Re: All Aboard the Athiest bus ..
Reply #91 - Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 2:06pm

muso wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 6:00am:

Soren wrote on Nov 1^st, 2008 at 8:57pm:

I do not mean to pick on you - you are not allone to speak like this - but why should ANYONE pay any attention to a person who does not even have a tiny fraction of the question, let alone a tentavie gesture towards the way. Why listen to any one person when apparently everyone is saying the same thing?

Then don't listen. I have dared to put my own perspective in words. By putting it in words, I do exactly what you say - It's the general principle of Reductio ad Absurdum. To verbalise concepts of our purpose in the universe is immediately invoking a false premise, and as soon as we invoke a false premise, all propositions become possible. When we think that have successfully defined something in words, it has already slipped out of our reach. It has crawled away while we were defining it and it's already somewhere totally different, laughing at our efforts to define it.

All I'm saying is that we all have a tiny fraction of the questions, regardless of the fact that some people claim to have a conduit to all the answers through their personal window on life.

Maybe we'll get closer to the truth if we all accept that when it comes to life, we all have useful and possibly unique perspectives.

I regard religions and philosophies as collected wisdom through the ages. Each one has a different perspective, or a different window on the universe.

If we are so arrogant as to think that our own unique perspective can be the only one that's right then we stand to lose as a result.

My sacred cows are knowledge and humility. What are yours?

If from your own perspective everything is absurd, and you know that from the start, what use is that knowldge and what is the point of piously invoking 'unique perspective"?
And if communicating this insight into qbsurdity is itself absurd -if, as you say, everything you define in words has already crawled away, laughing - what's the point of uttering them?
And so then back to the knowledge - if what you say about absurdity is miscommunication, perhaps your knowledge is incorrect. So what you know of absurdity is istelf an absurdity.
Start from top. Loop on ad infinitum.

If so, you should be like Cratylus - standing on street corners silently, wagging your finger at the passers-by.

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muso

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Re: All Aboard the Athiest bus ..
Reply #92 - Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 4:39pm

Soren wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 2:06pm:

If so, you should be like Cratylus - standing on street corners silently, wagging your finger at the passers-by.

Many windows are better than one. I prefer the insight of Kurosawa's Rashomon to that of Cratylus and Heroclitus.

Regardless of the absurdity of life, and as I said before, we'll get closer to the truth if we all accept that when it comes to life, we all have useful and possibly unique perspectives.

If we want to add meaning to life, we can only do it ourselves. We all do it, whether by following established religions or in many other ways, such as pursuing knowledge.

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Soren

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Re: All Aboard the Athiest bus ..
Reply #93 - Nov 4^th, 2008 at 11:33am

muso wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 4:39pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 2:06pm:

If so, you should be like Cratylus - standing on street corners silently, wagging your finger at the passers-by.

Many windows are better than one. I prefer the insight of Kurosawa's Rashomon to that of Cratylus and Heroclitus.

Regardless of the absurdity of life, and as I said before, we'll get closer to the truth if we all accept that when it comes to life, we all have useful and possibly unique perspectives.

If we want to add meaning to life, we can only do it ourselves. We all do it, whether by following established religions or in many other ways, such as pursuing knowledge.

How do you get 'closer to the truth' when the very idea of formulating it is absurd, according to your reasoning:

Quote:

To verbalise concepts of our purpose in the universe is immediately invoking a false premise, and as soon as we invoke a false premise, all propositions become possible. When we think that have successfully defined something in words, it has already slipped out of our reach. It has crawled away while we were defining it and it's already somewhere totally different, laughing at our efforts to define it.

The same goes for all the other stuff - 'useful and unique perspective', 'adding meaning to life' whether through religion or otherwise.

Each of your formulations, by your own reckoning, are elusive, unreliable - in short, you are NOT saying what you are saying.
You are conceptually nowehere. You have disappeared in a puff of undefinable, crawling, laughing metaphoric smoke.

You can't actually live like that. You could never cross the street, or indeed, get out of bed, if the uncertainty you formulate was a guiding conviction of your life. You are giving us, instead, a massive rhetorical overreach, hoping to demonstrate sensibility. But sensibility, like the rest, have crawled away already, laughing from a distance.

That is not pursuing knowldege or anything of the sort. Relativising everything in human affairs if impossible and therefore speaking as if it were possible is careless and thoughtless.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48839 At my desk.	Re: All Aboard the Athiest bus .. Reply #94 - Nov 4^th, 2008 at 11:43am Soren acknowledging that the truth is not as firm as commonly believed helps to keep things in perspective.
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Yadda

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Re: All Aboard the Athiest bus ..
Reply #95 - Nov 4^th, 2008 at 12:13pm

freediver wrote on Nov 4^th, 2008 at 11:43am:

Soren acknowledging that the truth is not as firm as commonly believed
helps to keep things in perspective.

FD,

Too many ppl in the world today are saying,

BLACK IS WHITE, AND WHITE IS BLACK.

UP IS DOWN, AND DOWN IS UP.

FD,

Perhaps the TRUTH is the TRUTH.

Perhaps the problem lies with our own finite, limited, human understanding, of absolutes [i.e. our limited, human understanding of reality ]?

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48839 At my desk.	Re: All Aboard the Athiest bus .. Reply #96 - Nov 4^th, 2008 at 12:19pm I've never heard anyone say that.
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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 21640 A cat with a view	Re: All Aboard the Athiest bus .. Reply #97 - Nov 4^th, 2008 at 12:23pm freediver wrote on Nov 4^th, 2008 at 12:19pm: I've never heard anyone say that. Yes you have FD. "ISLAM is peace." BLACK IS WHITE, AND WHITE IS BLACK. UP IS DOWN, AND DOWN IS UP.
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muso

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Re: All Aboard the Athiest bus ..
Reply #98 - Nov 4^th, 2008 at 1:23pm

Soren wrote on Nov 4^th, 2008 at 11:33am:

Each of your formulations, by your own reckoning, are elusive, unreliable - in short, you are NOT saying what you are saying.
You are conceptually nowehere. You have disappeared in a puff of undefinable, crawling, laughing metaphoric smoke.

The fact that we think provides refuge from the metaphorical smoke. Everything is based on perception - in some cases implied or enhanced perception. Cogito ergo sum.

The perception itself may not be a totally solid foundation, but it's all we've got.

If we choose to ignore our perception, then we'll all end up like Cratylus.

Sometimes I feel more like Sisyphus in this forum, especially talking about environmental issues. Grin

Sisyphus dared to change the course of nature by blocking the gates of Hades and was relegated to the pointless task of eternally rolling a rock up a hill only to have it roll down each time.

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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: All Aboard the Athiest bus .. Reply #99 - Nov 11^th, 2008 at 9:24pm And now, please stand for the Apostle's creed
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tallowood

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Re: All Aboard the Athiest bus ..
Reply #100 - Nov 30^th, 2008 at 1:13pm

The British Humanist Association was under fire this week for accepting £35,000
Quote:

The British Humanist Association, which is running a campaign get rid of faith schools and wants to end the Church of England's position as the established religion, was given the grant by the Government's equality watchdog and is using it to stage a series of debates about the place of religion in public life.
...
Neil Addison, a Roman Catholic barrister who specialises in religious discrimination, said: "It's a bit like paying the Taliban to lecture on women's rights.

"There's nothing wrong with the British Humanist Association organising seminars, but it's the fact that they're getting public money.

"There is the question of whether this is what Government money should be going for, particularly in a time of recession.

"If we're having a debate on religion, should we be paying one side of the argument to hold it, especially with public money?"
...
The BHA is also the "official campaign partner" of the atheist bus campaign, launched earlier this year, which seeks to place on London bendy-buses a series of adverts declaring: "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life".

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ישראל חיה ערבים לערבים

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