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In defence of muslims .......... (Read 4129 times)
Sprintcyclist
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In defence of muslims ..........
Oct 27th, 2008 at 10:34am
 

My sense of fair play has been piqued enough.
lets call this the alternative islam thread.
Since they won't give straight answers and I reckon I know a bit about islam, I'll give it a whirl !!!!!!!!!!!!

(lestat and Abu - pm me when I get something badly wrong)


Start the questions !!!




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Re: In defence of muslims ..........
Reply #1 - Oct 27th, 2008 at 10:38am
 
Can you list all the situtations under which a Muslim may acquire a slave?
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Re: In defence of muslims ..........
Reply #2 - Oct 27th, 2008 at 10:44am
 
is this for real?
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Re: In defence of muslims ..........
Reply #3 - Oct 27th, 2008 at 10:49am
 

Only children of slaves or non-Muslim prisoners of war can become slaves, never a freeborn Muslim; therefore slavery is theoretically doomed to disappear with the expansion of Islam.

http://www.twf.org/Library/Slavery.html



Also :-

"It should be very clearly underlined that the slavery once practiced in the Muslim world cannot be compared to the form it had assumed -- for instance -- in the Roman Empire. Islamic legislation subjected slaveowners to a set of precise obligations, first among which was the slave's right to life, for, according to a hadith, 'Whoever kills his slave shall be killed by us'. In consequence, the murder of a slave was punished like that of a free man.

There are many other hadiths which define Islam's true attitude in this regard. The Prophet said: 'Your slaves are your brethren; therefore whoever has a brother who depends upon him must feed and clothe him in the way he feeds and clothes himself; and should not impose upon him tasks which exceed his capacity; should you ask them to do such things, then you are obliged to help them.' The Sharia takes this injunction, among many others, into account when defining the responsibilities and duties of slaveholders.

There is another teaching which enjoins respect for the human dignity of slaves: 'Let none of you say, "This man, or this woman, is my slave". He must rather say: "This is my man, and this my woman."' Putting into relief the provisional character of social ties and the authority exercised by slaveowners over their slaves, the Prophet said: 'It is true that God has made you their masters, but, had He so wished, He could equally well have made you their slaves.'

To manumit a slave has always been regarded as one of the most meritorious of all acts, and many passages of the Qur'an recommend or even require it, particularly as a means of expiation for serious faults. Traditional legislation lays down the methods of voluntary liberation of slaves by their masters (itq), and there were very many Muslims who observed these, especially at the end of their lives, so as not to die and appear before God without having given full freedom to the human beings placed in their power during their earthly lives. "

http://www.twf.org/Library/Slavery.html


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Re: In defence of muslims ..........
Reply #4 - Oct 27th, 2008 at 10:56am
 
Thanks sprint. I'd asked about the children of slaves before but got no response. This would get a bit messy with concubines, as you could end up with your own child as your slave.

Obviously if everyone in the world was a muslim there would be no slaves (theoretically at least), but in practice that still leaves plenty of scope.

What about Dhimmis who disobey the rules for Dhimmis? Can't they become slaves? I suspect that the word war is used very loosely in order to create a false impression about limits on acquiring slaves - sort of like when those British clerics say they don't support the murder of innocents, then turn around and say only Muslims are innnocent.
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Re: In defence of muslims ..........
Reply #5 - Oct 27th, 2008 at 11:12am
 
aaahhhh, I don't think so.

"Dhimmis, on pain of death, were forbidden to mock or criticize the Koran, Islam or Muhammad, to proselytize among Muslims or to touch a Muslim woman (though a Muslim man could take a non­Muslim as a wife)."

Course, some things may be worse than being a slave !!!

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Jews_in_Arab_lands_(gen).html


It may be good to get a PM from lestat or Abu for that one.
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Re: In defence of muslims ..........
Reply #6 - Oct 27th, 2008 at 11:39am
 
What if they don't want to PM you Sprintcyclist?  Are they allowed to respond on this thread?
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Re: In defence of muslims ..........
Reply #7 - Oct 27th, 2008 at 12:11pm
 
You posted this sprint:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1224850702/2#2

The transgression by the dhimmis of some of these obligations, abolished their protection, and threaten them with death or slavery.
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Re: In defence of muslims ..........
Reply #8 - Oct 27th, 2008 at 12:54pm
 
F/D - that quote is in keeping with this one "...Dhimmis, on pain of death..."

Seems ok to me so far. I am not sure on the slavery part. Those sites have different answers.



mantra - they can do whatever they want.
I got sick of the deflections and asking other questions back.

They could not sell whisky to the irish, let alone teach anyone about a belief.
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Re: In defence of muslims ..........
Reply #9 - Oct 27th, 2008 at 1:19pm
 
Well it's the slavery part I'm interested in. If it is another mechanism to acquire slaves, it creates a perverse economic incentive to actively enforce a perverse law. They even get to play the good guys, by giving the recalcitrant Dhimmi a 'choice' between slavery and death.
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Re: In defence of muslims ..........
Reply #10 - Oct 27th, 2008 at 1:29pm
 

Under the islam law, better to be an obedient dhimmi then.


(I am beginnning to see why deflection and asking other questions back is a tactic used)
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Re: In defence of muslims ..........
Reply #11 - Oct 27th, 2008 at 10:02pm
 
At least you will get a straight answer here - AND no threat .
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Re: In defence of muslims ..........
Reply #12 - Oct 27th, 2008 at 11:39pm
 
Oh isn't this nice..a thread where all the Islamophobes can gather and swap fantasies and lies. Like flies attracted to poo.

Carry on...don't let me get in the way of your bigotry.

(FD...I've already told you, we no longer consider you worthy of discussion...give up asking question, your charade has been exposed. I've finally realised...if you don't feed a troll, he will starve)
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Re: In defence of muslims ..........
Reply #13 - Oct 28th, 2008 at 8:03am
 
lestat - this was started because we dont get any answers from Abu or you.
Only deflections or abuse.

Feel free to correct me where I am wrong.
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Re: In defence of muslims ..........
Reply #14 - Oct 28th, 2008 at 9:50am
 
Speek for yourself Les. It doesn't bother me if you stop responding to me. I just wish you'd stop responding to me to tell me about it.
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