Australian Politics Forum - Islam and lying to non-Muslims

freediver

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Re: Islam and lying to non-Muslims
Reply #45 - Oct 31^st, 2008 at 10:25am

"A prostitute from the Bani-Israil was thirsty, she went to get water, and when she drank the water she saw a dog thirsty just like her. A prostitute, she climbed in the well and took off her shoe and put water in the shoe, put it in her mouth and climbed out of the well. And gave water to the dog and the Prophet (pbuh) said because of that act Allah forgave her her sin"

Is that why Muslims stone prostitutes to death?

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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: Islam and lying to non-Muslims Reply #46 - Oct 31^st, 2008 at 10:28am Really I don't know why I bother...
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Gaybriel

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Re: Islam and lying to non-Muslims
Reply #47 - Oct 31^st, 2008 at 10:43am

Quote:

Is that why Muslims stone prostitutes to death?

mozzaok wrote on Oct 31^st, 2008 at 3:15am:

There was a big thing that I really respected in christianity, that Jesus stood up for Mary Magdalene, a prostitute, and told the others to back off, and not judge her,

freediver: is that why christians imprison women for prostitution?

Quote:

now that is a religious message worth teaching, has Islam got anything good like that to teach??

freediver: abu responded with a parallel to this and yet you still aren't satisfied. no, people do not always follow the things they are taught by their religion- but the point is mozza asked for a religious message equivalent to the one in christianity. now he has it.

Quote:

You think my disdain for Islam, is based on bigotry, and in a way you would be correct, but it is my hatred of bigotry, which I see Islam as promoting, which spurs my disdain for what I have learned of Islam.

so your bigotry is based upon a hatred for bigotry? good one.

you have seen here an example of Islam not promoting bigotry, do you have anything positive to say about that?

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Islam and lying to non-Muslims Reply #48 - Oct 31^st, 2008 at 10:50am and you wonder why everyone is seeing you as an apologist... oh except Mozz and the Mussies.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48833 At my desk.	Re: Islam and lying to non-Muslims Reply #49 - Oct 31^st, 2008 at 10:52am There aren't many prostitutes in prison as far as I can tell. I get the impression that Muslims don't have much of a choice in the matter. I'm not sure how the passage about forgiveness is relevant. As far as I can tell, God orders them to stone prostitutes to death. End of story.
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Gaybriel

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Re: Islam and lying to non-Muslims
Reply #50 - Oct 31^st, 2008 at 10:57am

freediver wrote on Oct 31^st, 2008 at 10:52am:

There aren't many prostitutes in prison as far as I can tell.

wow - good call man. no really. I'm totally genuine right now.

even if in some bizarre world this were right is still doesn't mean anything- the law is still there is it not?

Quote:

I get the impression that Muslims don't have much of a choice in the matter. I'm not sure how the passage about forgiveness is relevant. As far as I can tell, God orders them to stone prostitutes to death. End of story.

where do you get that from- is it in the quran? genuine question

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48833 At my desk.	Re: Islam and lying to non-Muslims Reply #51 - Oct 31^st, 2008 at 11:03am Abu told me. As for our law, I'm not even sure whether prostitution is illegal. Even when it has been illegal in our society, it was one of those laws that was rarely actively enforced. Currently the debate seems to be driven by concern for the welfare of sex workers.
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Gaybriel

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Re: Islam and lying to non-Muslims
Reply #52 - Oct 31^st, 2008 at 11:21am

freediver wrote on Oct 31^st, 2008 at 11:03am:

Abu told me.

As for our law, I'm not even sure whether prostitution is illegal. Even when it has been illegal in our society, it was one of those laws that was rarely actively enforced. Currently the debate seems to be driven by concern for the welfare of sex workers.

yes it is illegal here

not actively enforced probably because half the police squad was down at the brothel anyway

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=658157

this doesn't mean it's not illegal- it just means the police force is corrupt

yes there is discussion of welfare for sex workers- as there should be. there is also discussion about whether it should be legalised in order to increase safety for sex workers. this is however a reflection of the secular nature of Australian society, not its christian origins. The two seem to intermix and be drawn upon at different times. We view ourselves as both a secular and christian country- inevitably this causes inconsistencies.

but we're not discussing society are we - we're discussing the implementation of law as informed by christian beliefs- that is the imprisonment of prostitutes.

am I saying this is comparable to stoning people to death? obviously not.

do I support the death penalty for prostitution? absolutely not.

I am however pointing out that religious doctrine does not always reflect in every day life and action- even when it purports to.

if it's true that islam requires the stoning to death of prostitutes- well I think that's messed up

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freediver

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Re: Islam and lying to non-Muslims
Reply #53 - Oct 31^st, 2008 at 11:31am

Islam seems to differ fundamentally from all other religions in that it is the law. It doubles as a political and legal system. With other religions, specific guidance on a punishment for a crime is the exception, rather than the norm. Other religions seem to focus more on your philsophical approach to the problem - eg compassion or forgiveness - rather than a specific outcome.

Ask Abu about stoning prostitutes (and apostates, fornicators etc) to death. He seems to think his views are shared by the vast majority of the world's Muslims.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Online OzPolitic Posts: 40681 Gender:	Re: Islam and lying to non-Muslims Reply #54 - Oct 31^st, 2008 at 11:36am Abu - Quote: Really I don't know why I bother... maybe because you love us Or it is your jihad to be here ? Or you find this MUCH more mentally stimulating than the mosque? Anywya - it would not be the same without you
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Gaybriel

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Re: Islam and lying to non-Muslims
Reply #55 - Oct 31^st, 2008 at 11:40am

freediver wrote on Oct 31^st, 2008 at 11:31am:

Islam seems to differ fundamentally from all other religions in that it is the law. It doubles as a political and legal system. With other religions, specific guidance on a punishment for a crime is the exception, rather than the norm. Other religions seem to focus more on your philsophical approach to the problem - eg compassion or forgiveness - rather than a specific outcome.

Ask Abu about stoning prostitutes (and apostates, fornicators etc) to death. He seems to think his views are shared by the vast majority of the world's Muslims.

this seems to disagree http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1225416753

please post your thoughts within the other topic

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abu_rashid

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Re: Islam and lying to non-Muslims
Reply #56 - Oct 31^st, 2008 at 11:59am

freediver,

Quote:

Islam seems to differ fundamentally from all other religions in that it is the law

I've pointed this out to you on more than one occasion, Jewish law (Halacha) also has the same. Or how about Hindu law, where a widow must be burnt alive on her husband's funeral pyre when he dies? Your idea that Islam is the only religion which has laws (involving capital punishment) is just ridiculous, most religions do!

Christianity all throughout it's history prescribed capital punishment for apostates/heretics, just because they changed it over the last few centuries, doesn't mean it didn't always exist, it did!

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Islam and lying to non-Muslims
Reply #57 - Oct 31^st, 2008 at 12:06pm

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 31^st, 2008 at 11:59am:

freediver,

Quote:

Islam seems to differ fundamentally from all other religions in that it is the law

IOr how about Hindu law, where a widow must be burnt alive on her husband's funeral pyre when he dies?

Or the treatment of widows in Hinduism who do not commit sati.

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Online OzPolitic Posts: 40681 Gender:	Re: Islam and lying to non-Muslims Reply #58 - Oct 31^st, 2008 at 12:17pm warning warnign warning - diversionary tactics used. heresy is not in the NT.
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mozzaok

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Re: Islam and lying to non-Muslims
Reply #59 - Oct 31^st, 2008 at 12:31pm

I agree with Abu, all religions have pretty unpalatable teachings.

I think christians forget a lot of the biblical BS, because they do not actively enforce, or live it.

Except perhaps for some of the crazier evangelical cults from the US.

So effectively, christians who complain about Islam, are saying that Islam is bad because they still believe what is in their holy book, and we have decided to just pick out the bits that we find inspiring and relative in a modern world, from ours.

I actually like that fact about christians, but I could see how devout followers of other faiths would question their commitment.

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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!

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