Quote:Sounds like modern day islamics to me.
you'ld think it'ld change after 95 odd years
guess arabs are still the donkeys of men
I was referring more to this:
“In World War I his religious and
nationalistic fervour increased as he became
incensed by the conflict and by the many unemployed miners enlisting in the services…
On the morning of 1 January 1915
the two men raised the Turkish flag on the ice-cream cart and…”
“A letter bearing
the seal of the sultan, honouring his services to the Turkish Army, was found in his waist-belt.”
And in the link I provided
“
felt the Turkish Empire was under attack from Christian Western powers. One had been mulling over his humiliation for butchering sheep for the Moslem community,
one was fanatical in his allegiance to the Turkish Empire. Together they came to the belief that they had a religious and patriotic obligation to take up arms on behalf of their faith and their homeland.”
so like I said- it wasn't merely religious- it was at least in part patriotism and politics.
if it were just religion, why did they not spaz out earlier and kill a whole bunch of people?
Quote:I appreciate that you want to be fair to all people, and as individuals, no-one would argue that point, but some groups deserve disdain.
Would you be defensive of these men if their affiliation was to the KKK, and they shot black people?
Come on, be honest, you know you never would.
No I wouldn’t. Nor was I defensive of these men. I merely pointed out that religion was not the only factor in this. If it were wouldn’t they have launched from attack against the ‘kuffar’ without the war as a motivator?
Quote:Well I agree that all people deserve the opportunity to be respected, until their actions cost them that right.
Show me where I said I respected them
Quote:As for your statement about dope and killing, well it does show a decided lack of knowledge of what muslims do, it was more likely hashish, than marijuana they were smoking, and it has been a part of their culture for thousands of years, as has been, exacting violent retribution for any real or imagined sleight.
My point was that if they ‘went islamic’ as sprint put it- indicating some kind of reversion to a greater focus upon Islam, they would not be using drugs. If he meant gone Islamic in another sense then obviously I was interpreting it differently.
Quote:Islam sucks big time, it has far too much preaching of violence, bigotry and hatred, to be deserving of respect, and certainly not just because they call it a religion.
I think you will find that all the decent muslims you wish to defend, are decent, good people, in spite of their religion, not because of it.
No that is not what I have found. Try again.
Quote: Not really Grendel, I think she is confusing attacks on the teachings of Islam, with personal attacks against muslims, and it is most certainly not the same thing.
I do not confuse the two however I am aware that such sentiments towards Islam can in fact lead to those sentiments being manifested in interactions with muslims- often in a violent or abusive way. There are some who are able to disconnect their dislike of a religion from the people who follow it- but many are unable to. This does not mean I don’t think people should be critical of Islam- by all means do it. My problem is when people ‘get their hate on’ cause on the street that can turn into nastiness.
Quote:I think of it as like somebody defending the behaviour of medieval inquisitionists, and saying that what they did was nothing to do with christianity, when clearly it was.
Of course there were other factors, but the extremism got it's base support, from pious religious people, who chose to interpret christianity, in that way, at that time.
When have I excused equivalent behaviours?
Quote:We have seen christianity progress from that horror, we would like Islam to try and progress as well, but the ones who say it is perfect, and cannot be changed, lead us to conclude, it is a seemingly impossible task, as it stands.
People say it is perfect and cannot be changed because it is the word of God. I understand this perspective, however what I think should be changed is 1) interpretation of this word and who’s doing the interpreting and 2) people using Islam as a justification for cultural practices and political actions by essentially cherry picking what they want from the quran and ignoring everything else
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